WHat does a gearbox require in order to take a lipo?

[spartan117]

What does a gearbox require in order to take a 11.1v lipo battery? Does anyone if this gearbox can take it? http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/default/o...r-m4-rear.html Also how much FPS is 1joule?

[brusbilis]

1 Joule = 328 fps w/0.20 gr

[Skladfin]

nothing.

I used lipo in a plastic bushing JG HK416 for the longest time without a problem

all the gearbox needs is a proper shim job and that's about it.

people usually say that the gearbox doesn't last as long, but the real reason is that it lasts just as long.

for example, if the regular tm gearbox would last 50000 rounds with a 350FPS spring. Whether you are using Lipo, 8.4v mini, or 12v large, it's still going to last 50000 rounds, it just seems to break faster with lipo because you will fire 50000 rounds at a much faster rate than you would with an 8.4v mini.

[TriChrome]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

nothing.

I used lipo in a plastic bushing JG HK416 for the longest time without a problem

Probably part of the reason why you didn't have problems is due to the electrical system of the JG. It has bottlenecks for the current with things like the battery connections, switch assembly, wire, and the motor itself. So although you were using a 11.1v Li-Poly, the ROF of the gun isn't near where it would be with a higher quality setup; which is a good thing because it made your gun last a lot longer.


To the original question though, you don't want to mess around with 11.1v Li-Poly's (or large 10.8v Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries for that matter), unless you know what you're doing in the gearbox. It's a battery that takes it's toll on the internals quicker than you could imagine in most cases (just ask all the so-called "Li-Poly ready" KWA's that have broke.

[gvanzeggelaar]

Originally Posted by TriChrome

Probably part of the reason why you didn't have problems is due to the electrical system of the JG. It has bottlenecks for the current with things like the battery connections, switch assembly, wire, and the motor itself. So although you were using a 11.1v Li-Poly, the ROF of the gun isn't near where it would be with a higher quality setup; which is a good thing because it made your gun last a lot longer.


To the original question though, you don't want to mess around with 11.1v Li-Poly's (or large 10.8v Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries for that matter), unless you know what you're doing in the gearbox. It's a battery that takes it's toll on the internals quicker than you could imagine in most cases (just ask all the so-called "Li-Poly ready" KWA's that have broke.

I take it your have no personal experience with lipos. I also use them without a problem. When your using them, use your head and don't be a rambo.

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by TriChrome

Probably part of the reason why you didn't have problems is due to the electrical system of the JG. It has bottlenecks for the current with things like the battery connections, switch assembly, wire, and the motor itself. So although you were using a 11.1v Li-Poly, the ROF of the gun isn't near where it would be with a higher quality setup; which is a good thing because it made your gun last a lot longer.


To the original question though, you don't want to mess around with 11.1v Li-Poly's (or large 10.8v Ni-Mh or Ni-Cd batteries for that matter), unless you know what you're doing in the gearbox. It's a battery that takes it's toll on the internals quicker than you could imagine in most cases (just ask all the so-called "Li-Poly ready" KWA's that have broke.

If JG doesn't cut it, I've used it in a CA36C, Kalash AK74, CYMA MP5, TM M4, and Kraken. NON of them had problems. The only people who frown upon lipos are people with no experience. I used an 8.4v nimh ever since I started airsoft, and when I tried lipo, I never turned back, ever. I sold my nimh chargers and batteries alike, and turned completely lipo.

and about the KWA M4s that broke down, I use a KWA M4, and holy god isn't it awesome. I've used lipo ever since the first shot fired, and still going strong at 10000+ shots.

[TriChrome]

I am not trying to question everybodies experience with Li-Poly's, I've used them in 4 guns myself (in multiple configurations), each shooting from 380-450 FPS with .2's at 24-30 RPS, and didn't have any major problems, but you can't argue that there's inherent dangers in using them. I'm moreso arguing the fact that somebody new to AEG's shouldn't be using them, and with you saying you've used them in 6 different guns with no problems may lead somebody new to the sport to jump right into using them in their gun without knowing anything about them, and that's not something any Airsmith I know (myself included) would advise.

After the safety aspect, there's the problem with these batteries shortening the life of the gun. I'm glad your KWA has been fine for 10,000+ rounds, but that's not any benchmark on realibility whatsoever. I admit I can be a little trigger happy, but I can go through 10,000 BB's during a single 8-hour scenario, and stock TM's can last for hundreds of thousands of rounds.

Now I don't know which type of Li-Poly's you've been using, and I'm not here to nitpick the 6 guns you've used them in, but if the guns are shooting at 25+ RPS (as they should be in a healthy setup, if not see those bottlenecks I mentioned above), you run into many other problems that sub-20 RPS (using 9.6v and 8.4v batteries) guns don't have. Problems like the switch assembly corroding from the constant high-voltage arcing. Motors burnning out much sooner than they should. Stripping pistons from the fast ROF (especially when you don't mod the piston like should be done for that fast ROF). Having a simply BB jam break expensive gearbox parts because it took you a half second to notice something went wrong and your gun shot a lot more damaging shots in that time period because of the higher ROF. The list goes on and on.

[ShelledPants]

Also, a "problem" with 11.1v in a low fps gun is that it tends to either precock the spring for the next shot OR double fire on single because the cut off lever is too slow. The spring also is a factor because if it's not pushing the piston to battery fast enough, then the motor could try to wind the next shot while the piston is moving forward, and crunch, you fried your piston and or gears.

7.4v lipos up to 400 are FINE and give a very nice ROF. I wouldn't personally want to use a 11.1v lipo in a gun shooting under 380. (even though I have an 11.1 in my Kraken shooting 330 and it's been running fine, 2,000 rnds later...)

[Coma]

Out of curiosity, what exactly could a Lipo battery do to the mechbox in terms of damage? Are we talking about the internals simply wearing down faster, or are more catastrophic failures possible?

[gvanzeggelaar]

Originally Posted by Coma

Out of curiosity, what exactly could a Lipo battery do to the mechbox in terms of damage? Are we talking about the internals simply wearing down faster, or are more catastrophic failures possible?

Every thing in your gearbox moves a lot faster which creates the potential for more wear. People seem to think they will destroy your mechbox right away but it has been proven otherwise.

[Coma]

Thank you. I had heard about mechbox shells cracking and pistons exploding because of using Lipo batteries, but I guess its bunk.

[Jimski]

questions:
what is the discharge rate of a Lipo compared to a Nimh?
is it higher or lower ?
what capacity do you need to get in order to go above 30A of discharge rate?

btw It's not the 'Lipo' factor that is dangerous for the mechbox, it's the '11.1V' factor.
If a 10.8V Nimh is overkill for an AEG that is not prepared especially for it, what do you think it will be at 11.1V ? ...

[ShelledPants]

Originally Posted by Jimski

questions:
what is the discharge rate of a Lipo compared to a Nimh?
is it higher or lower ?
what capacity do you need to get in order to go above 30A of discharge rate?

btw It's not the 'Lipo' factor that is dangerous for the mechbox, it's the '11.1V' factor.
If a 10.8V Nimh is overkill for an AEG that is not prepared especially for it, what do you think it will be at 11.1V ? ...

Actually it's the discharge rate which is a factor. I have 7.4v lipo's with 1600mah that discharge at 20-25C with a burst of 30C.

[TriChrome]

I can't find a spec sheet on my Intellect 4200mah Ni-Mh cells, but they'll do over 30 amps. My 10.8v battery pack peaks at over 14 volts when it's fully charged.

Li-Poly's depend on the pack. Some like the Firepower ones that fit in the stock tube of an M4 do about 15 amps, others can be well over 100 amps on a pricier pack. 11.1v Li-Poly's peak at 12.6 volts (and it's not safe to charge them over that).

[Jimski]

thank you guys!

TriChrome I have a 10.8 4200 too, its rated over 30c, I think you can find discharge rates on www.onlybatteries.com