Modding a pellet pistol into an airsoft

[Stresstest]

Hello , My father and I works as gunsmiths in our own company called Armtech Can. (its been running for 16 years now)

it as come to my attention that Most Airsoft do not cross boarders and fall under Weird laws of replicas

Yet , The Walter Pellet Pistols are available in Canadian Tire , wich are a 1:1 replica of their own gun... and yet it doesnt fall into the replica prohibited laws

Now my tought was , I could Machine a bigger bored barrel , who would allow me to use .24 plastic BB instead into that same Walter Gas Blow back Pistol

The pistol itself shoots .17 BBs(metal) at a average of 325 fps
I wonder how my speed would increase if i change it with a .24 plastic BB
i have readed ineed to keep it 350 or so FPS for indoor and up to 450fps outside

Feel free to give any input , Good or bad about the idea


and while im Here, How may i get Age verified around Sherbrooke / Asbestos / Victoriaville ((i speak both english and french))


If my post dont make much sence , im sorry just tell me and ill try to reformulate it.

Have a good day

-David

[Crunchmeister]

This has already been done, actually. One of them was for sale in the classified section a couple of weeks ago. Apparently some Asian company is retooling the Umarex PPK pistols for airsoft use

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/attachm...6&d=1195368776

My only real question about this gun though is the magazine. How does one fit 6mm BBs in a stick mag that has an outer measurement of 6x8mm?

And BTW, I have that PPK BB .177 gun and it's an awesome little gun.

Now. If you could somehow modify the Umarex Beretta Px4 Storm pistol for airsoft BBs, I'd have an orgasm on the spot and order 10 of them.

[Stresstest]

about the clips , yes i didnt think about the Sizes of it

for the Umarex Beretta Px4 Storm pistol

the barrel isnt much of an issue , and i could always order one and run test on it

another Thing is , i cannot make the outte barrel Diameter Bigger or smaller , as it needs to fit into the pistol , and not hinder any other parts

I took a look at the Umarex Beretta Px4 Storm pistol

Probably will order one within the next week and Do the work , and hopefully come back here with positive results

[Crunchmeister]

There would have to be some machining done on the PPK's magazine well to enlarge it and you'd have to custom-build magazines for it. It's too bad it doesn't use full-size mags instead of those little stick ones.

Well, I should add that the Px4 pistol uses a very odd double-ended rotary magazine unlike any other pellet gun out there currently. I really don't see that conversion being possible unless you custom-design and build magazines for it too. Unless you really want the Px4 for yourself as your personal pellet gun, then I don't suggest you buy it for simple conversion, because I really don't see it as possible because of the magazine.

I was just saying that I would LOVE to see that being done. I own the Px4 pellet gun, and the thing is absolutely amazing. I would love to see one of those in airsoft format.

[Stresstest]

hehe well MAKING isnt a problem

We are 2 machinists here , we Build Custom Rifles "Gaulin Action"

also helped often on Mechanics with Weird odd pieces confections hehe

my main consern now is mostly about the Feets per second

i dont wanna put 2weeks worth of work on it and realise id have to rebuild a more restrictive gas chamber ((theres limits at how i wanna mod those thing haha))

[Crunchmeister]

Yeah, I totally understand your point. If you're a good machinist, then you can probably pull this off. The PPK is probably your best bet, since it already starts as a modest BB gun, firing .177 @ about 320 FPS. A mod to fire lighter airsoft would probaby put that up pretty significantly, but possibly under 400 FPS, the limit allowed by most fields and CQB games.

As for the Px4, it shoots .177 pellets at 425 FPS, already above the 400 FPS limit. I fear throwing .20-.28g 6mm BBs would probably send that to over 500 FPS. At that point, there's other legal ramifications since it would be considered a firearm at that point.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Stresstest

Yet , The Walter Pellet Pistols are available in Canadian Tire , wich are a 1:1 replica of their own gun... and yet it doesnt fall into the replica prohibited laws

Now my tought was , I could Machine a bigger bored barrel , who would allow me to use .24 plastic BB instead into that same Walter Gas Blow back Pistol

That is a misconception, they are replicas the same as any other object that is not a firearm that looks like one.. currently enforcement is such that these things are under the radar...

Just try bringing in a boat load without a license..

I'm thinking modifying and selling these things is a good way for you to possibly loose your BFL and shut down your gunsmith Biz.

[Danke]

The Walther air pistol uses a rotary "magazine" that slips into the slide. Picture a revolver that is covered by a shroud.

The magazine in the grip only contains the Co2 powerlet cartridge.

Also instead of recoiling the slide moves forward to allow loading. It does not move during firing.

I'm sure you could modify one as a non blowback with some degree of success, but why?

For the energy to do so, along with the cost of getting the pistols to modify why non just mill out metal slides and receivers made for airsoft pistols?

[Stresstest]

From my understanding Getting airsofts are a pain and well cant hide it , costy

I tought of talking to my Broker to enter Airsofts for Resale , but i been told that was a good way to get Hung and Closed also

For me Machining a 70$ Pellet wouldnt be so long , and would cost alot less than the 300 or so CDN $ Airsoft Pistols

Its more of a thing i want to try than an actual *way to make money*

[Crunchmeister]

Close, but not quite, Danke. Most Umarex pistols work on exactly the principal that you described. However, there are a few exceptions.

The Walther PPK/S and Beretta Px4 Storm referred to in this post are both totally GBB. The PPK feeds the BBS (doesn't fire pellets, BBs only) through a small stick magazine that inserts into the grip. You have to pull back the slide to load the first round, just like the real thing. And upon emptying your mag, the slide stays locked back, again, like the real deal. The Umarex Walther P99 Compact works the same way.

The Px4 Storm pistol is a bit of an oddball. It fires both pellets and BBs. While it's full GBB (and has a kick like a mule), it loads these really odd magazines. The mags are a stick type with an 8-round rotary clip on each end. You fire 8 shots, eject the mag, and insert the other end back into the gun to fire another 8 shots. It's not required to jack the slide back to fire the first shot, and emptying the magazine does not lock the slide back. The slide really is there more for show and to give the gun some recoil. And to that end, it works well. Although I'd prefer to have my slide lock back when the magazine is empty. That's my only 'strike' against this gun.

The other Umarex Walther and Beretta models work exactly on the principal that you described. They are not GBB and take 8-shot rotary clips.

[Danke]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Close, but not quite, Danke. Most Umarex pistols work on exactly the principal that you described. However, there are a few exceptions.

Ah yes PPK, "That's a Smith and Wesson and you've had your six".

I have a "Walther" Walther, & a Umarex Walther so I should have tagged P99 into my text.

[Syn]

Hey the CP compact uses the bbs and 17 or 18 shot mag , the CP99 Sport and Cp99 use the 8 shot rotary mag. If I had to mod a Walther I'd use the CP compact.

On the Cp99 and Cp sport: Trying to drill out the rotary mags to hold plastic bbs is not a good idea because the mag walls would be too weak from having larger holes, also you would only get 8 shots if it worked.

you'd need to mod the bleed valve to reduce the max FPS so example:

CP Compact ~$90 + airsoft new barrel cut to ~3"($40) + $additional Modding to the slide to hold the barrel and probably shaving other parts that hold the barrel??? who kows? under $200 in total? If you could do it it would be a solid gun with a pot metal slide. A bit pricey to run it on co2 though. Also you get NO hopup

So imo probably better to get an airsoft pistol with a metal slide running on propane. or a JG AEG

[Flatlander]

Originally Posted by Stresstest

my main consern now is mostly about the Feets per second

i dont wanna put 2weeks worth of work on it and realise id have to rebuild a more restrictive gas chamber ((theres limits at how i wanna mod those thing haha))

Simple energy equation SHOULD give you close results (kinetic energy of pellet = kinetic energy of BB)

Final formula:

Velocity of BB = Square Root ( Mass of pellet X velocity of pellet squared / mass of BB)

Mass of pellet = I have no idea
Velocity of Pellet = 350 fps - remember to sqaure this #
Mass of BB = 0.2

Now this formula won't give you a precise result but I think it should be pretty close. The transfer of the energy to the pellet/BB between the two systems is not identical (different barrel diameters and sealing, geometries, inertial differences, etc). It should give you a good idea if this gun will be shooting at unsafe FPS.

Hope that helps and good luck.

[Greylocks]

I think you should check to see what your permits allow firstly. Airsoft laws are already very strange, so it would really suck if you would lose your livelyhood to produce Replicas.

You would also have to build a hopup system, control the velocity, find a way to sell them under a new classification.

But... if you have the right to build them from scratch (completely) and not modify an existing pellet gun. And if you can do this at a reasonable price (let's say build something rare like an airsoft Lee Enfield) by using Airsoft parts intead of remachining an existing gun... you (I think) could do it.

Are you allowed to build firearms from scratch or just repair/modify? That detail will make a huge difference for you. It all depends on the paperwork you have.

[Ronan]

Might be a good idea taking out the personal info on your company from this thread...

Better Safe Than Sorry.