~M140 spring V.2 gearbox?

[ecsinc]

Question:
Will it work or not..hehe

Gearbox: Deep Fire reinforced Version 2 6mm gearbox (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=19845)
Cylinder Head: Deep Fire Version 2 (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=17357)
Cylinder: Stock type 0
Piston Head: Deep Fire Piston head (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=17951)
Piston: Deep Fire Single Metal Toothed (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=17352)
Gears: Stock Echo 1 (Classic Army rejects?) Standard Ratio
Bushings: Deep Fire Hardened oilless 6mm (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=21564)
Motor: Stock Echo 1
Tappet Plate: Stock Echo 1 (SEMI AUTO ONLY!!!!!!)
Air Nozzle: Deep Fire Metal Air Seal Nozzle + O-Ring (http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=20865)
Wiring: Stock Echo 1 (18awg I believe)
Battery: 8.4V 1100mAh & 1500mAh
Stock Spring: Systema irrigular pitched M120 (400fps on the money)
Barrel: Systema BS 6.04mm 509mm barrel
Hopup bucking: Prometheus Hard Bucking (red)

I want to get this shooting 450fps on semi auto only. Field limit is 500fps semi auto. What I don't want to buy: New motor, battery, new gears. Should I go with a M130 or M140. Remember I want to be a DM so I will probably use about 100rnds a game with 3 games left to play this year. Can I use a M140 with my current setup, or do I need to downgrade to a M130? I see on airsoftmech that a M140 gets 490fps w/.2g bb's..wow 140ms is 460 though? So if I choose a M130 will that get me 450fps w/.2? Also what gram bb should I get? I herd .3 works well but I won't lose range will I?

Thank you

[ILLusion]

I think you'd need to increase the torque level of your gears or you'll smoke your motor. Your battery will get pretty hot as well and it's overall lifespan will suffer from the amount of stress you'll be putting on it.

At M140 levels, you would be looking at something like Systema Super Torque Up gears or Prometheus Triple Torque gear sets just to get you proper.

Especially with an 8.4v 1100mAh/1500mAh battery. You NEED more torque to crank that spring. I have no experience with Echo motors, but I have a feeling you may want to at least upgrade that to a Marui eg1000 motor as well.

[joaz]

- the gearbox will hold a while (at least at 20°C), not sure about Canadian temperatures.
- the plastic piston head will not withstand the tapered cylinder head for long.

[ecsinc]

So I should just downgrade to a M130 and I'd be fine? I see in the tech ref about upgrades that stock gears are "safe" for a M130. Don't know what "safe" is defined as, either ok for the motor or will last a while?

Once I get my stuff I'll pop in the M140 spring and if the motor doesn't turn over or it does but I notice that it can't handle the spring I'll downgrade. Then I'll go chrono the thing.

I guess theres so many variables in airsoft that a simple question like a M140 spring with a stock motor and 8.4v battery can't be answered. It's no ones fault for this, its just the name of the game.

Question: If I use the M130 spring and I'm using .25g or .3g bb's and the fps is below 400fps should I still use soft or hard even though its above 400 with .2?

[ILLusion]

You can crank an M130 with stock gears, but both your batteries and motor will suffer from that stress - and your rate of fire will be pretty crap.

Stock gears can last... just not for a long period. I give it one season of regular play.

Yes... you can crank an M140 spring with an 8.4v battery, but you'd require the proper motor and gears to give you the necessary torque for a QUALITY setup. You can go the cheap route from the get-go, but in the long run, you'll end up paying more in repairs and such.

Use hard rubber for an M130 or harder spring.

[DSFD506]

Well dunno what kind of AEG your working with but you may just be better off buying one of those complete gearbox's from Redwolf. You can get one with an M150 spring completely assembled for $242.00. If you don't wanna fork out the money for a systema motor, Guarder has one that it equivalent to them for half the price. Last but not least you'll definitely need to purchase a bigger battery if you want to utilize the maximum performance of the AEG. I went the route of purchasing all the parts and realize now I would saved a ton of money buy just purchasing that Systema set.

my $.02 anyways

[ecsinc]

ROF is going to be null. It's semi auto only. I bet trigger response is going to be great!!! haha, well if I have a real slow trigger response then sure it'll wear down my motor and battery alot more but won't it put less stress on the piston/gears since there not spinning/moving so quick? I guess i'm guessing whats going to break first...
I've got a extra gearbox now and almost complete internals - gears & some other items. Has anyone made a compressed air gearbox? I was thinking it might be possible but you would have to chamber the next round every time???

[ILLusion]

Yeah, there'd definitely be less stress on the piston & gears due to the reduced drive - but my statement still stands: your motor & battery will hate you for it.

[ecsinc]

They hate me... I just FINALLY got things together. Something happened and the stock metal spring guide snapped where the flat bottom meets the stem. It still works with the screw holding things tight but its just a broken piece.

With the M140 spring the motor gets the stock piston all the way back but then it can't turn it that 1/2 rotation farther to decompress the piston. I was checking it and it almost looks like with the stock piston that there is extra plastic material on the back of the guide rails on the stock piston.
I am wondering if that extra plastic is stopping the piston from making the entire journey to the back of the gearbox?

Now for gears..I count 15 rotations from the motor per shot. How much difference is that going to be if I get http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=23032 ?


oh well, i've got my m120 in it right now and it works just fine without any problems. I'll pick up a M130 and try that out first with the deep fire piston and see if that makes any difference. I herd a M130 shoots around 450fps .2g? that correct?

I love this gearbox, its exact to a systema right? http://www.geocities.com/chomesnow/gearbox2.jpg except it was only $30US

[Greylocks]

An M-120 exceeeds most safety limits (and some legal ones) across Canada, on top of chewing internals up. M-130 and M-140 go far above what is safe sane.

So apart from costing you a lot of cash, you may not find places to play. Your profile does not say where you are located. If you are in the US, different laws.

[ILLusion]

Originally Posted by ecsinc

Now for gears..I count 15 rotations from the motor per shot. How much difference is that going to be if I get http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=23032 ?

You'll require a half-tooth piston in order to use that gear set.

[DSFD506]

Originally Posted by ecsinc

Now for gears..I count 15 rotations from the motor per shot. How much difference is that going to be if I get http://redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/ai...l?prodID=23032 ?

I have these gears combined with an airsoft surgeon stage 3 spring in my M4 and have had no problems with it.

[ecsinc]

Ok I'm going to buy a new motor tomorrow, hopefully this should be all I need right?
Choices:
Classic Army High Torque motor
ICS Turbo 3000

Should I replace the fuse? would that give me more power? It didn't blow when I first tried the M140 but Im assuming it would...

I would love to avoid all this if someone could tell me the fps of a M130 is. I'm looking for 450fps w/.2. Things should be sealed perfect so no leaks of air.

[ILLusion]

Replacing a fuse doesn't give you more power. It just allows more current to go through your system without blowing. If you require a high amperage fuse, that means you have an inefficient system. I've upgraded gearboxes to shoot 500fps and have not gone past 20A, however, this was with a MOSFET, torque up gears and motor. If you're blowing 30A or even 40A fuses, you REALLY need to step up your torque levels. The cheapass wiring of your discount AEG will also heat up much hotter to potential levels of melting with springs that heavy if you're not torquing up properly. Also, without a MOSFET, you risk burning holes in to your selector contacts. From what I hear, Chinasoft guns (like ECHO) have plates that are prone to burnouts.

An M130 will put you between 400fps and 450fps depending on your gun platform and all the gearbox components: whether the spring guide/pistonhead has bearings/bushing/spacer/base or not, inner barrel bore, inner barrel length, ventilated piston head or not, cylinder bore, the quality of your compression chamber's air seal, the hop up chamber, etc etc.

I'm guessing with a Chinasoft air gun, you should expect around 420fps with an M130 spring. An M140 should push you to around 450fps or higher.

[DSFD506]

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't that ICS turbo motor for high ROF and not torque ? The classic army motor is a good motor but I would probably go with that new Guarder motor to match the Guarder gear set. From what I understand it's botu the same as the new Systema motors.