Limited Penetration Room Clearing

[Anvil]

I would like to open this subject up for discussion.

To those of you who aren't familiar with limited penetration techniques, this link will tell you everything you need to know.
http://www.maxvelocitytactical.com/2...cqb-technique/

I was pondering why we haven't seen more groups adopt these techniques, given their many advantageous in an airsoft environment over the standard "dynamic entry" techniques.

These advantageous include:
1) BBs cannot shoot through walls, allowing us to remain safe from one of the techniques key flaws: the possibility of being shot through the wall/door frame.
2) In the situation that a member of the entry team is hit whilst performing a dynamic entry, you are left with the option to either lower your weapon and continue moving into the room as though you were not hit (potentially violating your fields rules) or halting in the door way, possibly being pushed, tripped, used as a kind of "human shield" (which may be interpreted as cheating) or clocked in the back of the head with somebodies muzzle. Limited penetration alleviates all of these potential problems.
3) Less men are required to clear a room from the doorway, this will increase the overall speed of the team in question and allow for more versatile tactics when you lack a standard 4 man element.
4) This style of room clearing is much easier to teach to strangers you might encounter on the field.

So guys, what are your thoughts? Do these tactics have a place in airsoft? What might be the downfall of these strategies in an airsoft environment? Why do you suppose we haven't seen more groups adopt this style of room clearing?

Also, this is my first post... so take it easy on me, eh?

[Brian McIlmoyle]

This is current training doctrine at TTAC3, and is effective with well trained persons.

The biggest issue with CQB in an Airsoft context is that airsofters don't really care if they are hit.

Immortality affects mind set.

[Red Dot]

Yes, at TTAC3 that is the main way presented to clear a room. Works really well in my opinion and I'll be showing it to my teammates this weekend.

I think we don't see it more in airsoft is just exposure, majority of CQB videos online revolve around dynamic entry. In a standard square room you can clear the majority of the room from outside the door with 2 people while minimizing exposure from inside the room.

If you really want to practice this I highly suggest attending TTAC3 when you can.

[nardac]

Our team currently practices clearing In a similar manner. We discussed the many dynamic entries we had seen and the number of casualties taken. It all looks great seeing a team stacked up outside of a room, but due to the fact we don't get flash bangs or grenades ends up making it ineffective.

Great info though, will definitely build on what we had learned through trial and error previously.

[Solomance]

Anvil,

Since TTAC3 is quite far for you. If you have any interest in getting a group together to go through the TTAC3 curriculum feel free to drop me a line.

I’m a former instructor at TTAC3 and have been posted to Victoria. Even though we don’t have any dedicated CQB facilities around we do still run into small building at most of the venues we use.

[MiniMcNabb]

https://www.youtube.com/user/highthreatsystems/videos

[ThunderCactus]

Anyone with any kind of seriousness in being good at airsoft has been using these tactics or something very similar for years.
The only major issue is that those EXACT tactics do not extend to dealing with threats OUTSIDE the room. Normally, hallways are not fully secured, there are other close proximity doors to deal with. Sometimes the arena is just built as a straight up clusterfuck to try and secure.
But that's when you follow the golden rule of CQB:
"When in doubt, FRAG OUT!"

Provided that you are safe enough from fragmentation or shock, if you can't safely clear a room, FRAG IT.

[Red Dot]

Originally Posted by MiniMcNabb

https://www.youtube.com/user/highthreatsystems/videos

Their website has an excellent articles , www.highthreatsystems.com. Thanks for sharing!

[Foxer2373]

I don't see nearly enough grenade/flash bang/smoke thrown prior to entry. We practice it constantly. toss, limited prenetration, full dynamic flow through and security setup.

[Styrak]

Just came in here because of the title. Heh.

Oh man double heh.

[Flaming Salami]

Flash bangs are non-existent in airsoft. Thunder B's do not work the same way. I have seen many people think that they do. They throw them, then think everyone is "stunned", proceed to clear a room and get destroyed. It is funny to watch. I think smoke grenades are used the wrong way in airsoft as well. Cold burning smoke is not powerful at all and really doesn't work too well to cover your movement. IMO they are better utilized to smoke people out of rooms.

That being said, the best limited penetration technique is GRENADES! Tornado grenades are useful in airsoft if a kill distance (i.e. 5 ft) is preset. Just throw as many into the room as possible before moving in. Then go in fast and expect to get shot up a lot ahaha.

[RainyEyes]

Originally Posted by Flaming Salami

That being said, the best limited penetration technique is GRENADES! Tornado grenades are useful in airsoft if a kill distance (i.e. 5 ft) is preset. Just throw as many into the room as possible before moving in. Then go in fast and expect to get shot up a lot ahaha.

http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...-fighting.html

In most instances where a room is about to be entered, a hand grenade is first thrown into the room by opening the door, throwing in the grenade and closing the door quickly. The instant after the grenade has exploded, and while the results of the concussion from the explosion are still in effect, the clearing party rushes into the room with a light machine gun or rifle ready for action. The drill usually prescribes the movement from room to room or from floor to floor in two groups, evenly divided, the rear group covering the advance group by fire.

Not enough co-operation in most games. Good for teams though.