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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:03   #16
Cifyra
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I'm not sure if anyone can answer this but are Special Forces more likely to use Norinco copies or TT-33s?
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:24   #17
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I can but I think I'll let you do your own homework.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:27   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskaryot View Post
I'm not sure if anyone can answer this but are Special Forces more likely to use Norinco copies or TT-33s?
The design is from 1930....... what do you think?

It's an amazing design, I'd take the one I own into combat any fucking day, the round has impressive performance, but it's not something likely to be carried by a proper army these days.

On that note, FUCK norc copies and their added manual safety, the only thing anyone should ever use from norc is their damn SKS or AK copies
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:46   #19
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Originally Posted by Kingsix View Post
I can but I think I'll let you do your own homework.
With Type 92 out of the picture as there's no airsoft variant to date, here's what I can find.
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Although most firearms chambered in this caliber were declared obsolete and removed from military inventories, some Russian police and special forces units still use it for its superior penetration, rather than the more popular 9 mm Makarov ammunition in current use. 7.62 mm Tokarev rounds.
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The TT-33 is still in service in the Chinese and North Korean armed forces today.
However, no mention is made regarding Chinese special forces. In addition, Wikipedia says one of Norinco's pistols, NP-58(p226 .40 cal clone) is in use. But there are no embedded citations supporting that claim. If I was arguing against TT-33, I would say there are more modern designs available such as NP-58 sporting more stopping power of the .40 round. On the other hand, If I was to argue for TT-33, I would cite the better penetration the 7.62mm has as well as the fact that it is a design that withstood the test of time.

And that's all the research I could come up with since I can't type Chinese and search Chinese sites.

My vote so far goes to Norinco by a slim margin
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:52   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iskaryot View Post
With Type 92 out of the picture as there's no airsoft variant to date, here's what I can find.


However, no mention is made regarding Chinese special forces. In addition, Wikipedia says one of Norinco's pistols, NP-58(p226 .40 cal clone) is in use. But there are no embedded citations supporting that claim. If I was arguing against TT-33, I would say there are more modern designs available such as NP-58 sporting more stopping power of the .40 round. On the other hand, If I was to argue for TT-33, I would cite the better penetration the 7.62mm has as well as the fact that it is a design that withstood the test of time.

And that's all the research I could come up with since I can't type Chinese and search Chinese sites.

My vote so far goes to Norinco by a slim margin
Special Forces generally have access to much nicer stuff than the rest of the forces, do you really think they'd choose to use a TT-33?
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:54   #21
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Originally Posted by Gato View Post
Special Forces generally have access to much nicer stuff than the rest of the forces, do you really think they'd choose to use a TT-33?
Maybe, Russian special forces do at the very least... not saying I'd use the TT33 over Norinco's newer guns
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Old March 14th, 2011, 19:57   #22
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Originally Posted by Iskaryot View Post
Maybe, Russian special forces do at the very least... not saying I'd use the TT33 over Norinco's newer guns
No, they don't, the gun is a design from the 30's, I OWN a russian made TT-33, it's fuckign amazing, but it's FAR from the best design around, especially these days, no one would use it over the other designs available to them if they're special forces. Unless you're implying/saying that the Chinese military is so shittacular that their spec ops use TT-33s :P
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Old March 14th, 2011, 20:35   #23
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I can confirm the TT-33/type 54 is no longer in service of the chinese SF few years ago. If you wanna do a modern PLA SF load out, I would suggest go with a USP.45, it's looking is the closest one to the type 92 pistol among all the airsoft GBB. Usually the LE departments in China are more flexable on their choice of weapon than the PLA. I've seen Shenzhen( my home town) SWAT do the CQB trainning with Glock, and few years back , the Snow leopard unit in Beijing was using mp5 in training, or if you wanna do the HK Police/STU outfit, Glock and Sig saure are good choice.

The TT-33/type54 is only good for the early 90's loadout. Our old type 87 uniform and 02 paratrooper vest will do well with the type54/TT-33.

I only wish Real Sword will make a GBB of the type92 or the export version of type 92. Hope I was not day dreaming.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 21:29   #24
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Originally Posted by T@NK View Post
I can confirm the TT-33/type 54 is no longer in service of the chinese SF few years ago. If you wanna do a modern PLA SF load out, I would suggest go with a USP.45, it's looking is the closest one to the type 92 pistol among all the airsoft GBB. Usually the LE departments in China are more flexable on their choice of weapon than the PLA. I've seen Shenzhen( my home town) SWAT do the CQB trainning with Glock, and few years back , the Snow leopard unit in Beijing was using mp5 in training, or if you wanna do the HK Police/STU outfit, Glock and Sig saure are good choice.

The TT-33/type54 is only good for the early 90's loadout. Our old type 87 uniform and 02 paratrooper vest will do well with the type54/TT-33.

I only wish Real Sword will make a GBB of the type92 or the export version of type 92. Hope I was not day dreaming.
I see, well thanks for the clarification. I think I'll probably go with the Sig P226 since apparently PLA uses it under NP58(Wikipedia), looks similar to the USP and T92, and is one of Norico's pistol clones(M1911, CZ, SIG).

There are SWAT trainings in Shenzhen? I used to go there every summer with my parents (working in Hong Kong) and frankly found the places we went quite boring =P. Maybe I was just visiting the wrong part of town XD
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Old March 14th, 2011, 21:49   #25
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there used to be HK STU instructors and operators came up here for joint trainning with SZ SWAT, not sure if they are still doing this. SZ is as big as GTA, I am sure you just didn't find the right place and right people, even myself haven't been to every place of SZ.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 02:17   #26
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The Norinco Sig clone is not an option, the Chinese SF only has been issued with type92, 5.8mm caliber, 20 round capacity magazine, double feeding.



The LE departments havee been issued with 9mm version

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Old March 15th, 2011, 02:39   #27
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Here is a very interesting and rare pic, the PLA soldier in the front was using a type 67 silent pistol with built-in silencer, it was developed and issued in year 1967, it has been widely used by the Chinese SF during the border war between China and vietnam in the late 70's to early 80's. The two at the back were equiped with type92 5.8mm caliber, the latest version of type 92 has the threaded barrel and allow to attach silencer on it.

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Old March 15th, 2011, 03:27   #28
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Originally Posted by T@NK View Post
The Norinco Sig clone is not an option, the Chinese SF only has been issued with type92, 5.8mm caliber, 20 round capacity magazine, double feeding.



The LE departments havee been issued with 9mm version

Well neither is a USP, Glock, Type 54, or 1911 an option in that respect... =/ At least, the SIG is made by Norinco and the USP is not....?

btw, never knew it had a 20 round, that's actually pretty nice.
Sig p226

QSZ-92

HK USP


If you're going to get something closest to the QSZ-92 in terms of looks, imo P226 is the way to go, with USP coming in at a close second.

On the other hand, if you're going to get something closest to the QSZ-92 in terms of availability to PLA soldiers, well, I'm not so sure. I'm not sure how PLA works, whats its rules are, nor how gun laws work in China. But if it's anything like the US army, this might be a good comparison.
Quote:
General Order 1 states that you cannot use personal weapons. While I disagree, the order is there under CENTCOM's guidelines. I was upset, because I was going to purchase a Springfield XD-9 Tactical to take with me, until I found out about GO1. Here's some excerpts.


APPLICABILITY: This General Order is applicable to all United States military personnel, and to civilians serving with, employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forces of the United States, while assigned to the MNC-I or while present in the MNC-I AOR except for personnel expressly excluded under USCENTCOM GO-1A.This General Order also applies to all United States military personnel, and to civilians serving with,employed by, or accompanying the Armed Forces of the United States,

PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES: Purchase, possession, use or sale of privately owned firearms, ammunition, explosives or the introduction of these items into the MNC-I AOR.

No weapon, munitions, or military article of equipment obtained or acquired by any means other than official issue may be retained for personal use or shipped out of the AOR for personal retention or control unless authorized by the Commander, MNC-I.
Most COs don't allow you to bring your own guns. But a few do. That's why you sometimes hear soldiers in Iraq or Afganistan with Springfield XDs or Colt .45s.

Will we ever see a PLA soldier with a non standard issue Norinco gun in our lifetime? Who knows. Will we ever get a QSZ-92 airsoft in our lifetime? I hope so. But either way, I think its a matter of personal choice at this point in time.... =/

P.S. How hard is it to modify an airsoft gun externally to look like another gun?
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Old March 15th, 2011, 08:39   #29
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The Tokarev TT-33 is a great addition to the WW2 armory

I still think a full metal Walther P38/P1 would be be better
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Old March 15th, 2011, 12:03   #30
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oh goddd FINALLY. Makarov is seconded, that's my airsoft white whale. Hey if we buy enough Tokarevs maybe they'll see how much guns ending in V are needed!
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