NEWBIE QUESTIONS

[Scarecrow]

Again, I made the horrible mistake here of not posting an entire encyclopedia of reasons.

No, you've argued a point of view that is simply wrong and you continue to do so and I won't concede your point on this no matter how you restate it. I've taken the time to explain my reasoning because I think this is an important point to get straight going forward.

Originally Posted by Greylocks

This now gets said every day to people who say we're wrong. I'd love a solution.

Good, thats constructive, I can work with that.

Using replica laws as a way of saying you have to be 18+ to play airsoft is bypassing the real reasons for discouraging the under 18 from obtaining or pursing airsoft. I think it hurts the sport when we do that. We need to be encouraging and mentoring new players, not dissuading them from pursing the sport as a past time. Myself and many of my older teammates have brought to the team and mentored many under 18 year olds, even met with their parents to discuss airsoft with them - we've brought them to public and private games, vouched for them and they've ultimately ended up being valuable members of the team and the airsoft community. In fact, ask Zapples, he can tell you all about that. At one game last year at Wolfpack field Atreyu brought a crew of younger guys with him which he pre-arranged with us and that we then cleared with the field owner. We spent extra time with them and Atreyu has been mentoring them in the game and to their credit they were some of the best, most responsible players on the field that weekend. Had we stuck to our blanket policy on 18, we would have not had the pleasure of their company or their enthusiasm during the game. I am sure these guys will go on to play airsoft in their early adulthood.

Being under 18 years old is not the problem. Being irresponsible and immature is. Making bad decisions is. I've met many an over 18 year old who needed a kick in the pants in this department. So age might be a factor, it isn't the only factor and it shouldn't be drilled down to just that.

I also think making blanket statements about what cops will do to you when they find you breaking the replica law bypasses all of the much more serious charges a youth can get themselves into that they need to be educated on, like the ones in my prior post - those charges and reasons are far more life changing than hanging the entire under 18 argument on the replica law and simple seizure.

People come to this board for accurate information. Yes the whole under 18 issue is complex, but in simplifying it by making blanket statements about the replica law as it relates to airsoft and age, which it doesn't, isn't accurate and is a disservice to those seeking information on the sport.
Your desire to help is laudable but if you're going to go to that effort, it should be with accurate and truthful information. Redirecting to an explanation already on the board is probably the best thing you can do if someone starts getting into a discussion about something that's be FAQ'd already. Beyond that its your choice to engage, and all I am saying is that if you do, you should also commit to not giving them an inaccurate watered down version on replica law as the gospel.

[Debbie]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

PS, I am a curious bastard so I thought I'd remind Debbie of something she posted, direct quote too:


Maybe her own advice has changed?

THAT IS A FACT AND IS A LAW!!!!!

Greylocks, once and for all....There is NO law forbidding minors from playing airsoft...NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WANT THERE TO BE

....get that through you damn head....

Try deflecting more shit Greylocks, you are under about a ton of it now. I am sorry but you cannot begin to understand the anger I have towards you and how you have treated countless people, and then as it turns out, you are full of shit. We need new players to survive and enjoy this sport with us.
If I were you I would just shut up....you are making yourself look stupider everytime you write a backpeddling post. If it was up to a Police officers discretion, I am sure he would say you are guilty......

The players who are in the know, ie., Vets, and adults have been discussing this matter and your behaviour now for years. A typical Greylocks post is "Oh yeah, I am 43, and you are what 17? What do you know that you think I don't already know and have done. Go away and come back in a year". Gee does that sound familiar?

The kicker is.....YOU DON"T EVEN PLAY AIRSOFT.

[Greylocks]

Go for it Debbie, the newbies are all yours.

I never said they could not play if under 18; they have to meet conditions like parental approval (many dont), supervision (many dont), approval of field owners (that's up to the field owner due to insurance reasons) and they have to understand they cant own the guns until they are 18.

So it's better to wait until you are 18, then the responsibility is on your own shoulders and you can buy what you want.

Now that it's established you dont like me, fine. Now that it's established I'm always wrong, please take up the reins. I'll refer all newbies to you if you wish so you can enlighten them since you do play, right?

[Debbie]

Yes I do play. I have absolutely no problem helping new players. I would be absolutely thrilled to help mentor minors into this sport. New Players feel free to PM me about anything.

[thephenom]

feisty debate we have here.....

Oh yeah, don't forget to mention the regulation on "imitation firearm" we have in Ontario. Which does restrict sales of imitation firearm to 18+, and imitation firearm is defined as something that resembles the real gun, but is not a firearm or a replica.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by thephenom

feisty debate we have here.....

Oh yeah, don't forget to mention the regulation on "imitation firearm" we have in Ontario. Which does restrict sales of imitation firearm to 18+, and imitation firearm is defined as something that resembles the real gun, but is not a firearm or a replica.

Scratch my last, I found it, yes, such a regulation exists. For sales. I don't see anything about posession or use though. So for all practical purposes your legal guardian can buy one on your behalf and allow you to use it, but, strictly speaking, you're forbidden to traffic in them until your at least 18. Doesn't say anything about supervising a minor with an airsoft gun either, so thats presumable up to the discretion of the guardian (I assume).

Still doesn't support the idea that those under 18 can't use airsoft guns or play with them.

And all this is predicated on the idea that an airsoft gun falls under the 'imitation firearm' definition, which is also debated. Its all so gray its really unenforcable, and the proof of that is the fact that they guns are readily so available.

[Greylocks]

An under 18 person CAN play airsoft and handle a gun IF;

The legal gun owner is present and monitoring it's use (and is preferably responsible legally for the minor), and the land owner allows it legally.

The problem we have is under 18 people wanting to buy airsoft guns and playing anywhere they please with no supervision or parental support.

Just like for real guns; you must be supervised and do it in a location that is appropriate. If you cant shoot a real gun in your backyard or your city, you cant use an airsoft gun either. For that bit, your age does not matter. It even applies to adults.

Yes, it's all very grey, but that does get applied.

Oh, right, what I have seen happen does not count. I'll let you all explain it to newbies so they understand.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

Oh, right, what I have seen happen does not count. I'll let you all explain it to newbies so they understand.

If you happen to help people and drop the sarcastic sanctimonous know it all crap, I don't have a problem with it, but like your last post, you've got a lot of growing up to do in your communications, just like the under 18s that seem to be beneath your contempt.

GL - unplug. Go sit in a field of daisies. Masterbate. Do something that will make you a happier human being. You're obviously unhappy communicating with people on this subject yet you come back for more every time. Seriously its not your responsibility to set all the newbs on this board straight. You can ignore PMs that are stupid. But if you engage you should do so in a productive non-vindictive and accurate fashion. Thats all I've been saying. What I am getting back is restatements of your original position and a 'oh-woes-me' sob story about how rough life is in the trenches of educating newbs. Give me a break bud.

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

Oh, right, what I have seen happen does not count.

What exactly have you seen?

[HaZarD SFD]

Hmm .. I think this thread is in a need for...

ok girls
the "i know more about guns then you do" cat fight is lame
be men
have a "my ***** is longer then yours contest"....hazard will be the judge

[Blackthorne]

Originally Posted by Droc

ok girls
the "i know more about guns then you do" cat fight is lame
be men
have a "my ***** is longer then yours contest"....hazard will be the judge

Piss off...I asked a valid question and I don't need a referee.

Excuse me?

[HaZarD SFD]

Originally Posted by Blackthorne

Piss off...I asked a valid question and I don't need a referee.

Originally Posted by Droc

Excuse me?

Oh this should be good!

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Droc

ok girls
the "i know more about guns then you do" cat fight is lame
be men have a "my ***** is longer then yours contest"....hazard will be the judge

I'm doing my best to stay away from that kind of thread Droc... after 3 children, I am quite content with the size of my ***** and its function, I don't require competitive comparisons to stroke my ego.