Degradation of Civility between players

[Dirtbag]

Good read, we have dealt with the not calling hits, by the fire at centre of mass, if you see bb's hit and they do not call shoot them in the legs. Most people will feel that hit. Worst case walk to them ID, them and report them to the game organizer. To be dealt with by the game organizer.

BUT you must have seen the bb's actually hit the target.

How does that relate to tolerance, well back when our field had 12 players as a big game we were a little more tolerant and gave more time for bad behavior / attitude to be corrected.

Now averaging 50 to 60 players per game, we are actually less tolerant, we don't need giant egos and small dicks ruining the day for everyone. So one warning, a second issue then see you, in addition we report to the other local clubs. We make it very clear in the pre-game speech this is how it works.

Oddly enough the biggest trouble makers don't show up anymore.

But a demo for new and old players of the inherent lack of accuracy of the average AEG helps. We fire a 10 round burst a pie plate at mid range, in the clear taking all the time in world to aim. Then do the same with the plate in the brush doing a quick shoulder and burst.

The results sober up the guys who think they never miss. We have had a few cases where no rounds hit the plate the obscured plate.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Excellent post..

and the demonstration of the inherent inaccuracy of airsoft guns is a good idea.

Case in point... At the last game at PRZ.. I saw 3 guys chasing a 4th down the street.. the 4th guy was easily 2x the max effective range of their guns away.. the three stop chasing..( i guess they got tired) and each empty a mag at him.... and then get all Pissy because he did not "take the hit" .. They had no Idea than none of them were in range for any of their BBs to even reach him let alone hit him.

In their minds.. this guy just took 90 hits and kept going.

This is why I don't really like the outdoor game. CQB in a space that is less than 70 feet square eliminates the "out of range " issue

[m102404]

Civility is completely dependant on the maturity and self-control of the player. Has nothing to do with airsoft per se...that person probably behaves the same way with other things in other environments too.

I've seen the gamut of guys...from newbies to overly-seasoned vets display everything from impecable gentlemanly conduct to raging piss-offs. Not much rhyme or reason to it...it's either in the individual or not. Same goes for confronting an issue (calmly or not) or just "letting it go".

Sure...there are things that trigger guys. Due to airsofts way, way, way less than lethal inherent nature....getting a game where every shot flies true to its mark and every hit ='s an "OUT!" is likely just a pipe dream. Been at some games where it's really close....and it's sweet....

[Maethori]

Great points here from several people. I've only really been into airsoft for a couple years so I can't speak on the history of this problem, but I have seen it in a few games I've been at. I know I want the games to play seriously and more realistically so if people are bending or breaking rules I can get frustrated. Maybe that's justified, but I have to take a few things into consideration. I am not everyone else and they might not notice what I notice. Also, maybe they are less "serious" players and more want to have fun rather than follow a series of strict rules (though that's still no excuse for going to an event with rules and breaking them). Hey, maybe I'm actually the one who's wrong and didn't see what I thought I did. People do cheat, but there's also a myriad of possibilities that could put them in the right.

As for the method of just shooting them till they call it, it's really the only way I can see to maturely deal with the situation in-game. If they're angry about being shot more than once then they should realize it's not the shooter's job to confirm the hit. If they don't want to be hit again they have to make sure it is obvious that they're out of suffer the consequences. I know I on occasion hesitate to call hit, not to cheat but just as a "dejected pause". This also prevents things from moving along as smoothly as they should and it's totally my fault if someone keeps shooting me till I yell "Hit!" with some sort of decent clarity.

I'm also not a fan of raising all the fps limits. For one the limits are generally there for safety reasons. Secondly, that creates a disadvantage for people using guns with lower velocities. Some builds legitimately work better (ex. hop-ups) at lower velocities. People can tell well enough if they were hit with the current limits as long as they are paying attention.

But I think in the end, come on, this is just a hobby. We aren't going to die or be seriously injured if someone bends rules. Players aren't losing anything measurable if hits aren't called. The amount of fun you get out of something is really up to you! If something isn't happening properly then a) deal with it calmly and maturely b) avoid the situation in the future, or c) don't let it bother you.

I'm sure I just regurgitated a lot that was already said, but there you have it in my words.

[krap101]

Reminds me of the story (I forget who posted it) of the kid with a stock bar-10 saying a kid maybe 150 yards away wasn't calling his hits...

Also reminds me of a video where you see a guy shooting at another guy (apparently) who isn't calling their hits, and he pulls out a real gun and starts shooting. Fake obviously, but I can't seem to find it...

[Curo]

I've been airsofting for just the summer, and have loved every moment of it. Now I wear amour in that my plate carrier as mock plates in it, but I've always tried to call my hits when ever I hear or feel them. I hope that in doing that other players do the same.

I myself have seen a round bounce of the ground and hit me so lightly that if I didn't see it, I wouldn't have known it hit me. I called my hit.

I've also had times where I am sure I've put enough rounds to hit someone. But my SCAR only shoots 310fps and honestly I wasn't 110 percent sure so I kept my yap shut (Being a new player doesn't give me allot of credibility either).

All and all even with a few 'non-callers' I've enjoyed my airsoft experience one of the main reasons I started playing was to look badass all in gear, the combat is sweet bonus to me. Honestly I've played all those video games you all seem to hate. But I understand they are video games and this is airsoft. One has graphics the other is real life.

I actually enjoy getting hit to an extent, if your not getting shot at your not in the thick of the fight!

[Styrak]

Originally Posted by Cobalt Caliber

I myself have seen a round bounce of the ground and hit me so lightly that if I didn't see it, I wouldn't have known it hit me. I called my hit.

Rounds that bounce off the ground and hit you don't count, just FYI.

[Curo]

I know, it was just I called it and was kinda like, didn't need to call that.... meh unlimited respawns and its only a short walk away...

[m102404]

Originally Posted by Maethori

....
I'm also not a fan of raising all the fps limits. For one the limits are generally there for safety reasons. Secondly, that creates a disadvantage for people using guns with lower velocities. Some builds legitimately work better (ex. hop-ups) at lower velocities. People can tell well enough if they were hit with the current limits as long as they are paying attention.

But I think in the end, come on, this is just a hobby. We aren't going to die or be seriously injured if someone bends rules. Players aren't losing anything measurable if hits aren't called. The amount of fun you get out of something is really up to you! If something isn't happening properly then a) deal with it calmly and maturely b) avoid the situation in the future, or c) don't let it bother you.

....

To the first part...raising FPS limits with "known guys" is no issue at all. Typically the shot making and shot taking is so much clearer and distinctive that it's never an issue. Adding 50fps sucks ass in CQB, completely not necessary, but it opens up a whole new game (not that the guys in Alberta, etc...haven't been doing it for a long time already).

To the second part...A LOT of guys invest a lot of time, money and energy into every game they participate in. Some games have months of lead up time, dozens of volunteers and complicated logistics (and that may be just to find a babysitter ). EVERY player stepping onto the field at ANY game has (and should have) an expectation that everyone else will be holding themselves to the highest levels of game play...since AS is an honour based game. And in return, every other player on the field expects the same in return. Once that is compromised...it's a shit show.

Originally Posted by Styrak

Rounds that bounce off the ground and hit you don't count, just FYI.

Originally Posted by Cobalt Caliber

I know, it was just I called it and was kinda like, didn't need to call that.... meh unlimited respawns and its only a short walk away...

Cobalt...that's exactly the judgement that's needed on the field. When guys switch their brains off and say, "look, I was hiding behind this indestructable leaf so you couldn't hit me"...it's never does anything good for the game play.

I'm certainly not perfect. I'm missed taking uber light hits from snipers...I've lain in a shallow depression and had rounds land all around me and not called it...etc... No one is perfect, but all you can do is keep your brain working and learn to do better.

I've also gotten hit on the side of the boot from what was probably a bounce...but since I couldn't tell for sure, I called out. I've also had someone get the stone cold drop on me...only to rip off a string of misses/miss-feeds...and called out. What's better for the game...someone working the bush for 30min to get someone dead to rights (it was a sweet move on his part), or for me to call the "hit" and go and take a 10min respawn?

Same with "grenades" and 40mm's...a switched on brain is the only thing that really makes it a really good game, otherwise we might as well strap on a 6 pack of hicaps and just hose down the area until it's a carpet of BBs.

[Varjeal]

Originally Posted by ThunderCactus

I don't mind getting hit by a 30 round burst, it's airsoft, your going to get shot, if you can't take it, leave. But I hate it when I've called my hit loudly 3 times, have my dead rag on, and people are still shooting me.

^This +1. Unfortunately has happened once at each of the past three games I was at. I am however, also guilty of not immediately finding out who it was and why they felt that was necessary and then whining about it later. That will change for the future.

Thanks for the thread and the reminders on proper sportsmanlike play.

I think I'm going to approach EAR about having a training day not just for my team, but an open one for folks new to the sport so they learn some of these fundamentals early.

[S_Okita]

Well im new to the game this year, i have a private field that i run games on for friends and special invites (friends of friends, etc.) and really havent encountered this. Although playing in a setting where everyone knows everyone, and will probably be going to hang out together later kinda forces the honesty. No one wants to be "that dick head" later on. I have however had a few shots like everyone has said above, where you are not sure if you got hit, did a stick whipped your gear as u are running? etc. Personally if i have thoughts i got hit i'll call it, I hate to call it but i do, if you dont whats the point in playing?? (hell sometime the excuse to go to the safe area for a drink or a snack is welcome) I mean what challange is there if you can just walk along and not be eliminated??
Im guessing these are the same people who beat a video game with a code then tell people how good the are...

[R1ghty]

I get a chuckle hearing trash talking from the OPFOR. But there is a line.

I have a problem with teammates whining and crying about the other team. At Rhino, I saw some 'funny' things. Nothing bothered me, with exception to my teammates reactions to those events.

Remember that everyone is out to have fun. If you are not having fun, think of the rest of the team.

[SuperHog]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

One of the largest problems with people taking hits is caused by the shooter and not the person hit.

Many people will fire a couple of shots .. see them hit .. and then start yelling for the guy to "take his hit"

Solution for those that know they are good at getting kills but experience these situations..... wear a head cam!

Nothing like capturing a kill on video. The cam is your only witness.

[S_Okita]

Originally Posted by SuperHog

Solution for those that know they are good at getting kills but experience these situations..... wear a head cam!

Nothing like capturing a kill on video. The cam is your only witness.

a little excessive dont you think?? honour doesnt cost a thing, only actions....

[Curo]

I think its a great idea, just expensive. Nothing says caught like being on camera. But I mean as Brian said sometimes people don't feel it, give them a couple more shots and if they don't call it take it up with them and if it becomes problematic take it up with Game Control.

EDIT: To add to my post I can this become an issue for outdoor winter games as players layer up on gear to keep warm.