Systema PTW on www.amazon.com !

[Andres]

Originally Posted by SEALs

I tought the fairy dust was crytal meth!

It is.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

Your thinking is flawed. By your rationale, more players = more retailers opening up to supply them = more competition = lower prices. This could not ever happen in a legal way.

A actual scenario would be more players = more competition for scant resources = higher prices.

You can't just open up a legal business to import these thing just because the demand is there. The CFC doesn't give a shit about demand, and won't issue you a license to import just because. If this was the case, we'd still have 15 retailers in Canada, like we did up until mid-2006. Then, there was competition, but guess what, a Marui that cost $220 U.S. on Redwolf was still $450 here. And that was at a time when retailers skirted the law and were bringing in guns by the seacan (anybody remember the pictures of Peter Kang in front of the open seacan full of guns?)

So, as you see, bitching and moaning does nothing at all. Even if you were motivated enough to open a business to remedy the situation, you would get nowhere and nothing would change.

If it really bugs you that much, quit airsoft, because you can't do a thing to change it, unless you become PM with a majority and force the issue through Parliament.

And don't think for a second I wouldn't like to see price equity, but it won't happen with our legal framework. I've learned to accept it, as you can't fight it.

Sorry i don't agree. Simply because people WILL open up business. Mind it if its legally or illegally, but more business will open. Even if we can cut off $100-$300 of the price of the current AEG's i'll be happy. Money saved is money saved.

Also if you look you will see more and more airsoft guns available for sale. Sure they are only clones but its only because they are cheaper to get and more people can 'dish in' the money to 'start a small business'.

Leaving things as it is, is only bad. I encourage people to start up small business (legally!) to compare with the current shops. If some people are happy with current prices, good for them. I know a lot of people who wouldn't mind saving a bit when buying airsoft guns.

[Xenos-Fear]

Imagine our great nation, full of PTW, each home owned a PTW, legally... and playing all together... in a big field like Toronto, Quebec City...B.C.

we could use some army stuff too, flashbang, smoke, blackhawk helicopter......... APC... Abram Tanks ! Hell yeah !


Huh... I think I was dreaming...

Yeah, it's bad to see that we cannot fight our system about it. I fear that maybe they could shut us down about all this... but I'm just hoping that we won't have any major incident concerning airsoft for the next few years to come. It's difficult to get AEG and GBB inside the country for us, fellow players of ASC community, but it is also difficult to own airsoft stuff for those who have bad intention of using it. That's the only bright side I see to all this.

[SHaKaL]

Myself i prefer a robber using a pellet or airsoft gun to rob a bank or convenience store than the one using a real gun... He wont kill anyone... just puts welt on the innocent if he fire...

I wonder if i'm the only one thinking that way...

[Xenos-Fear]

Originally Posted by Wilson

Definitely. For now I can't justify spending that much on a toy.

My girlfriend would probably kill me if she know that I bought a PTW for 2000$ Ouch ! Dammit ! I would like to get one but for now, I can't She won't approve my little expense !

[Xenos-Fear]

Originally Posted by SHaKaL

Myself i prefer a robber using a pellet or airsoft gun to rob a bank or convenience store than the one using a real gun... He wont kill anyone... just puts welt on the innocent if he fire...

I wonder if i'm the only one thinking that way...

But Police and law Enforcement will probably arrest all airsoft players for owning replicas... there will be a sort of paranoïa I guess if it was the case... that bad guys use airsoft to rob a bank, store, etc. Someone will see us playing in a «legal field» and they will call the police cause he just saw some guys with machine guns hunting themselves, happy to shoot themselves... and running everywhere... lol

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Ronan

Sorry i don't agree. Simply because people WILL open up business. Mind it if its legally or illegally, but more business will open. Even if we can cut off $100-$300 of the price of the current AEG's i'll be happy. Money saved is money saved.

Also if you look you will see more and more airsoft guns available for sale. Sure they are only clones but its only because they are cheaper to get and more people can 'dish in' the money to 'start a small business'.

Leaving things as it is, is only bad. I encourage people to start up small business (legally!) to compare with the current shops. If some people are happy with current prices, good for them. I know a lot of people who wouldn't mind saving a bit when buying airsoft guns.

You can't open a business if you can't get stock. Years ago, there were airsoft retailers who themselves did not have a license to import. They were supplied by other businesses that did have a license. Those guys are all gone now, except 007. There are no businesses bringing in quantities enough to supply their needs as well as their competition. The days of plentiful AEGs are over, and as time goes on, things will only get worse. At some point, there will be no retailers willing to bother with the hassles, both from the government side as well as the consumer side.

Airsoft businesses will start up, like this new one by leGros, but they stock nothing of value in my opinion. Nowadays, people think Marui and Classic Army are something to work toward, and Kraken and Chinasoft are the shit. Myself, I was baptized into this sport when none of that existed, or was even a thought. And even though the lines of clearsoft have opened up, it's not the same and many guys don't like what that represents either, regardless of the cloning quality.

I hope airsoft doesn't degenerate into discussions about which clear $99 guns are the best and which black paint works best on which clear body. Unfortunately, our laws push us in that direction. And just because you want to open a business and believe you can supply guns does not make it a possibility. Buyairsoft.ca? Where are their ICS guns? Everyone else selling quality guns is gone except A&A and 007. They will not be replaced.

[Ronan]

Originally Posted by mcguyver

You can't open a business if you can't get stock. Years ago, there were airsoft retailers who themselves did not have a license to import. They were supplied by other businesses that did have a license. Those guys are all gone now, except 007. There are no businesses bringing in quantities enough to supply their needs as well as their competition. The days of plentiful AEGs are over, and as time goes on, things will only get worse. At some point, there will be no retailers willing to bother with the hassles, both from the government side as well as the consumer side.

Airsoft businesses will start up, like this new one by leGros, but they stock nothing of value in my opinion. Nowadays, people think Marui and Classic Army are something to work toward, and Kraken and Chinasoft are the shit. Myself, I was baptized into this sport when none of that existed, or was even a thought. And even though the lines of clearsoft have opened up, it's not the same and many guys don't like what that represents either, regardless of the cloning quality.

I hope airsoft doesn't degenerate into discussions about which clear $99 guns are the best and which black paint works best on which clear body. Unfortunately, our laws push us in that direction. And just because you want to open a business and believe you can supply guns does not make it a possibility. Buyairsoft.ca? Where are their ICS guns? Everyone else selling quality guns is gone except A&A and 007. They will not be replaced.

You forget not everyone can afford a PTW or even a CA or TM. I'm perfectly fine with people playing with china clones as long they are not clearsoft crap (that would ruin the game since we play for 'realism'). Those 'china stores' are not much, but its a start. Who knows, maybe they will grow in TM/CA/ICS/etc stores when they have more money.

For the people you mention that don't like those clones, well thats fine. Don't get a clone and go pay the premium for a TM, CA or w/e they want. Everyone to their own taste The good thing about those 'china stores' is they open the sport/hobby to MORE people that don't have the luxery to spend $500ish for a basic AEG to come play with us.

[mcguyver]

Originally Posted by Ronan

You forget not everyone can afford a PTW or even a CA or TM. I'm perfectly fine with people playing with china clones as long they are not clearsoft crap (that would ruin the game since we play for 'realism'). Those 'china stores' are not much, but its a start. Who knows, maybe they will grow in TM/CA/ICS/etc stores when they have more money.

For the people you mention that don't like those clones, well thats fine. Don't get a clone and go pay the premium for a TM, CA or w/e they want. Everyone to their own taste The good thing about those 'china stores' is they open the sport/hobby to MORE people that don't have the luxery to spend $500ish for a basic AEG to come play with us.

I think you missed my point. You can't open up a store without a license. Licenses are not easy to get, they don't just give you one because you pay a fee. You can't import guns other than clear without a license. If you want the sport to "grow", you need guns. You are not going to get anymore into Canada that what is already available, unless you get clear.

And clear is the low end of the low.

The advice dished out on ASC over the years when this same discussion arose was "Be prepared to spend $1000 on gun and gear, or airsoft is not for you". I don't recall ever saying that myself, but many others did. Now, people complain over who sells a $99 U.S gun the cheapest.

I remember seeing one of these Chinasoft AK's for the first time at a game I hosted about 1 1/2 years ago. It was a bad copy of a Marui, and performed about even worse. Before the guy even played, many guys laughed at him openly. I did not think that was right, but at the same time, I don't believe that we should just let airsoft take this route either. How many threads on ASC are about the cheap guns?

At least with the Marui and others, you had to sink $1k+, which tended to weed out the kiddie-commandos, and you had to be serious to play if you were tight for cash but had to decide to spend big, because there were no alternatives.

You can't have more retailers selling anything other than non-clear guns unless more licenses get issued. The CBSA and the CFC have a strangehold on airsoft in Canada now, and things will get worse, not better. Clear is not the way to go to grow the sport, but they are the only guns available to people who want to open a retail airsoft business without getting a license.

And for the record, I say spend what you want on a gun, I will spend what I want. But I don't think the cheap guns will help out airsoft in Canada at all.

[Xenos-Fear]

That means that airsoft is going to die in here... cause like Mcguyer said : Airsoft without AEG and GBB, that's not airsoft... low quality will not help... we're gonna have to buy AEG in Walmart and Canadian Tire soon ! Shit ! I saw it coming in the last few years, and I cannot tell that we have some improvement about all this... this is just going down straight.

So vote Conservative and lobby the resulting majority government to stop babysitting us with laws based on fear and irrational comparisons between toy guns and evil baby killing assault weapons.

I get really fucking mad when people say "omg we have to do something" but refuse to vote in a majority for the only government in YEARS that MIGHT listen to you. Libertarian might help you in 20 years...Liberals would sell your guns for votes, Greens would ground them into fertilzer, and the NDP would give 'em to Osama.

[SHaKaL]

SOOOO +1 here

[Tankdude]

People are still bringing in guns, but they keep it on the down low. They don't sport big fancy stores and are out of sight most of the time.

I get the feeling that some of this low brand stuff is just people driving over the border with it and reselling it.

[Crunchmeister]

As unlikely as this is to happen (since it defeats the original purpose for airsoft in the first place), if the 'big name' gun manufacturers were to produce guns of the same quality they currently do, but with a clear receivers or clear slides, they would be replaceable with solid color plastic or metal parts instead. Or people could just paint them. Hell, people do that with ABS and metal bodies all the time anyway. That would go a long way to making the guns legal to import, accessible, and ultimately cheaper.