Toronto indoor field pricing poll

[baraccuda]

ok so its his lose then. but then other people can build on his or her misfortune. yes i understand about senior players and such but all this person is asking is what would you like to pay. nothing more nothing less and i gess an explanation. so maybe i should start a thread with "make belive a in door field is coming. what would you like to pay???" would that work

[Greylocks]

The only folks who can comment on indoor field pricing are those who own one and can talk about the costs they face.

The rest is speculation.

[Mapcinq]

The only ones who can comment on it with some knowledge of the subject, yes.

I can comment on what ever the fuck I want to though.

[Greylocks]

Yes, you can. The comment was not directed to anyone in particular.

I can wish for X dollars per day/hour, but whoever owns the place decides.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by baraccuda

who cares? just tell the guy what you would like to see. does it really matter about his back ground. if he wants info give it to him. he is Joe blow from but Fing the moon. there. sorry to go on a rant but does it matter who he is? its his money, his time. if you have nothing good to say well "if you do not have anything nice to say, then do not say anyhing thing at all" Bambi.

and back to the thread:

all pay what ever the amount is with in reason. if the building is shit then you get e.g. 10 bucks but if the building it goood e.g. lighting, props, washrooms ect. then i do no mind paying 25-35.

A lot of the question of who he is has to do with effort. There are folks in this community who are professional architects, tradesmen, etc. Many of which would love to have an indoor field. If this guy proves to have the financial backing, and will to open a field, I'm sure these people would come out of the wood work, and give him a much more realistic idea of what to expect.

[quaestor]

Originally Posted by Greylocks

The only folks who can comment on indoor field pricing are those who own one and can talk about the costs they face.

The rest is speculation.

Trict's intent appears to be a research effort on what the airsoft community market can bear for an indoor field in the GTA. He (or she) is likely posing the question to evaluate the financial feasibility of the project, particularly by investigating revenue sensitivity. If airsofters aren't willing to pay a certain price, then going ahead with a field and its enormous costs is a waste of time.

Although indoor field costs are certainly an important factor for Trict to consider, the thread was started with the expectation of responses addressing field pricing and qualitative features that would support such pricing (like Goldman's first post).

Should any existing indoor field owners be able to provide some insight here, I'm sure Trict, and the rest of us, would be more than interested.

To add some more context, I haven't played an airsoft game in several months - mostly in part due to the inconvenience and commitment of traveling out of town to play at a decent field. Were an impressive indoor field to exist, I would most certainly regularly visit and pay $30-35 for each outing.

Easy access, decent washroom facilities, dynamic field layouts, and professional management are all features I would pay an additional $5-10 for. Saving me 2 hours of driving and gas is worth much more alone. I'm sure most people can value their time at least as much as $5 / hr.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Ok lets do this again...

most people agree that the $25.00 price point is the target.
Lets say this is for 4 hours..

Lets make some other assumptions.

The facility will be 15000 square feet ( this is about 3 times the size of TTAC3 and 3/5 the size of Splatters.

Lets presume 2 employees making a starving wage,
and lets presume one principle who is making a mediocre living.

Warehouse space in Toronto, The cheapest that is still accessable is $14.00 a square foot Plus Plus ( taxes and Utilities )

So lets run the numbers down..

Monthly Rent $17500.00
Utilities $1500
Employees $ 5000
Principle compensation $4000

Total montly expenses ( conservative ) = $28000.00

So you need to generate about $1000.00 of revenue per day to just support the endeavor..

It is likely any warehouse will need leasehold improvements, so lets add some startup costs.

Rental equipment $ 20 000
Renovations to environemnt $ 50 000.
Business licenses and incorporation costs $5000
Marketing $10 000.00

Total Startup $ 85 000.00

Lets presume you finance this .. so lets add $30 000.00 in interest

Total 1st year expenses $451 000.00

At $25 a pop this would require 18040 sessions sold
or 1503 a month, 375 a week
or 53 paying customers a day.

Now if you put in a pro shop (not selling guns of course because that is illegal) but gear and consumables.. you could suplement your revenue stream.. and reduce the need for players.

but really you could not get below the need for 40 sessions sold a day or there abouts.

I've done the math... it could be viable but I would want 1.5 million in the bank before I started looking for a place.

[lt_poncho]

Brian, didn't you make this a sticky yet? Christ...

I think the idea of a poll is to determine and measure how much $ players are willing to pay for x# of hours of play. From there you can create a baseline of how much expected revenue per hour you might gain from going into such a venture.

Brian, you forgot the part about Commercial Insurance, Prop & Casualty...

[Goldman]

Depending on the set up, I dont think its that un-feasable.

For kit owners, the price should be 25. But if you were to look at say the cost of an average day of paintball. (25 for kit rental, 7.50 per 100 balls x5 = 62.50 on average. Thus you could get away with a renter paying $50 for their kit-up.) Which comes into 25/day 175/wk paying customers, not including BB sales. If you were to incorporate corporate team building, and birthday parties, I don't think its that unreasonable....

Especially if you keep in mind that if the field is of good size, with good props, trustworthy parking and a decent location, you can see upwards of 35 players a game (depending on if the venue can hold that). Include something like a membership that is 300 a year, then $5 to walk on instead of 25... The math *could* work.

[Moz]

you should definitely consider also making it a paintball field as well just because I'd imagine it would be a more solid source of revenue.

[Goldman]

Originally Posted by Moz

you should definitely consider also making it a paintball field as well just because I'd imagine it would be a more solid source of revenue.

The problem with that would be the serious lack of airsofters playing there.

There is a reason we only play at splatts in the winter, when nothing else is available....

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Goldman

Depending on the set up, I dont think its that un-feasable.

For kit owners, the price should be 25. But if you were to look at say the cost of an average day of paintball. (25 for kit rental, 7.50 per 100 balls x5 = 62.50 on average. Thus you could get away with a renter paying $50 for their kit-up.) Which comes into 25/day 175/wk paying customers, not including BB sales. If you were to incorporate corporate team building, and birthday parties, I don't think its that unreasonable....

Especially if you keep in mind that if the field is of good size, with good props, trustworthy parking and a decent location, you can see upwards of 35 players a game (depending on if the venue can hold that). Include something like a membership that is 300 a year, then $5 to walk on instead of 25... The math *could* work.

I agree that the math could work..It is not an impossible prospect.. even at the $25 a session level.

But you would need very strong traffic ... rentals would be the key ..Which likely means you would need to have a BFL as well..

The trick is to have enough backing to have funding for the 2 years it would take to build up the traffic to sustainablilty.

The place in MB uses a buy time in 45 minute chunks .. I thnk it is $15 / 45 minute chunk..
So for 4 hours play it would be $80

So at that price with the numbers I posted before you would need 20 payers a day .... to play 4 hour sessions.. and the whole thing becomes much more viable within the existing community. but it is a radical price point difference from the "paintball prices"

It is a mistake to compare paint ball field fees .. without including the average $ spent on extra paint... I think the average cost of a paintball session is much closer to the $80 price point .. in fact I expect the typical cost of a 4 hour paintball session is more in the $60 mark when you add rental and paint...

[MADDOG]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

I agree that the math could work..It is not an impossible prospect.. even at the $25 a session level.

But you would need very strong traffic ... rentals would be the key ..Which likely means you would need to have a BFL as well..

The trick is to have enough backing to have funding for the 2 years it would take to build up the traffic to sustainablilty.

The place in MB uses a buy time in 45 minute chunks .. I thnk it is $15 / 45 minute chunk..
So for 4 hours play it would be $80

So at that price with the numbers I posted before you would need 20 payers a day .... to play 4 hour sessions.. and the whole thing becomes much more viable within the existing community. but it is a radical price point difference from the "paintball prices"

It is a mistake to compare paint ball field fees .. without including the average $ spent on extra paint... I think the average cost of a paintball session is much closer to the $80 price point .. in fact I expect the typical cost of a 4 hour paintball session is more in the $60 mark when you add rental and paint...

Paintball fields make there money from paint sales not the entrance fee for equipment owners. Most daily field fees are only $10 for the day free airfill or CO2. This is why they sell memberships for 200-250/year to get the up front money. They know people with equipment will come to play and spend 60 to 100 dollars a day on 1000+ paintballs to shoot. Sell them concessions on top of that, have a pro shop for gear and you are in business. Hydro test tanks and do scuba fills even more money. Sponsor tournaments that use field paint only drive more sales.

Would the majority of airsofters go for this, probably not since we spend all our money on gear, guns and ammo.

MD

[Trict]

Originally Posted by Phalanix

Actually, it does. Airsoft isn't only about the guns, the gear whoring, the fun - but it's also about the players and this community. Due to the sensitivity of airsoft in public eyes, most players (perhaps typcially the more senior players) would like to get to know new players and/or people who come in boasting they want to open a new field. Many of us who've been on this board long enough has seen enough cycles of these threads.

Plus, it won't help Trict and his field if he ends up being a total asshole (not saying he is one), but if that becomes the case, no one will go to the field.

Well, I'm not a new player, and I haven't said that I'm going to open a field either, we're just doing research. I can't very well walk around downtown Toronto and ask random people what they think an airsoft field should have, and what they would expect to pay.

[Trict]

As said before, one can't really compare a paintball field to an airsoft field. Paintball fields make money selling paint. Field costs and rentals are minor compared to the amount they make selling paint. You can't expect do the same at an airsoft field because no one would pay huge sums of money for bbs. So you make up the difference by having a higher walk on fee. But you can't just have a higher walk on fee and provide a boring experience, no one would come more than once, so you have to make up for it in the experience and the facilities.

The Winnipeg field has a permanent setup I believe. Now we don't think that's ideal because it would get boring quickly and once again you wouldn't want to come back after a while, so a modular field would be the solution for this, but there's so much more that could be done, so that's why we're here asking, what else would you want to see.