Best stubby/smg non-m4

[lurkingknight]

I don't like g&g mp5s.. they do some weird bastardizations to get gearboxes to fit or use their shitty blowback system.

Will also mention that a mp5a4 with the full stock is about as long as a g36c.

[Floreos]

Okay so that's not going to be bought then.

Which brand is ideal? I don't mind saving up and getting the right one. No rush, definitely want to have it going for summer though.

[Floreos]

Okay so that's not going to be bought then.

Which brand is ideal? I don't mind saving up and getting the right one. No rush, definitely want to have it going for summer though.

[lurkingknight]

mp5s are all about picking the one with the issues you feel you can deal with imo. Unless you want to wait and see what LCT's offering will be. We know stamped/welded steel upper for sure, but how the rest plays out is unknown.

The G&Gs that I've worked on have the top 3 or 4mm of the gearbox cut off to make it fit in the uppers. Meaning if you crack the shitty g&g v2, you have to order a replacement from g&g or cut your own to fit. The toptech gearbox is a pain in the ass to take apart and put back together and is also made of the same soda cracker mix of material that will crack if you look at it in the cold.

Anything using the TM design will have the stupid lever hop arm adjuster, TM, ics, and I think JG.

CA and cyma has a slider hopup, CA gearbox specs and part specs have always been a bit suspect, it could take a while to get working right if you want to upgrade it. The v2 gearbox bushing holes I've heard are drilled in offspec locations that are not seigetek friendly, but that could've been years ago or a bad batch or it could be the truth. CYMAs are heavy.

SRC has a stamped steel upper but it's SRC. I have not handled one but it has the nicest upper, probably the shittiest internals by reputation alone.

MP5Ks use a v3 gearbox have very little battery space and their hopup can only be adjusted by taking the foregrip off.. and it also has a reputation of not staying where you adjust it.

CYMA is heavy.

VFCs have a mechanical burst, not sure if you can put a spectre in it or not.

I dunno, if you must have one before LCT comes out with theirs, I'd be sitting on my ics and pick up a CA a4 navy to compare side by side. I had no issues upgrading 2 different CA g36s to use 13:1s reliably but they are v3s and I haven't tried putting seigeteks into my g36, but again it's a v3 so their manufacturing jigs for drilling the bushing holes might be different for v2s vs 3s.

Nobody has come to me looking for a pinnacle upgrade mp5, so my spectre 13:1 build is the furthest I've ever taken one. Most people that come to me want basic or 13:1 builds on m4s or AKs. I've done maybe 5 siegetek builds but all have been in m4s or a test mule v3 I have that I was testing a chimera on.

[Datawraith]

Funny thing that. I was hoping to get Z to ZTW an LCT MP5 when they do come out (Siegeteks, Spectre, the whole shebang). I guess I'll post up if/when that happens (I'm really hoping the LCT can take those upgrades...)

[Floreos]

Originally Posted by lurkingknight

mp5s are all about picking the one with the issues you feel you can deal with imo. Unless you want to wait and see what LCT's offering will be. We know stamped/welded steel upper for sure, but how the rest plays out is unknown.

The G&Gs that I've worked on have the top 3 or 4mm of the gearbox cut off to make it fit in the uppers. Meaning if you crack the shitty g&g v2, you have to order a replacement from g&g or cut your own to fit. The toptech gearbox is a pain in the ass to take apart and put back together and is also made of the same soda cracker mix of material that will crack if you look at it in the cold.

Anything using the TM design will have the stupid lever hop arm adjuster, TM, ics, and I think JG.

CA and cyma has a slider hopup, CA gearbox specs and part specs have always been a bit suspect, it could take a while to get working right if you want to upgrade it. The v2 gearbox bushing holes I've heard are drilled in offspec locations that are not seigetek friendly, but that could've been years ago or a bad batch or it could be the truth. CYMAs are heavy.

SRC has a stamped steel upper but it's SRC. I have not handled one but it has the nicest upper, probably the shittiest internals by reputation alone.

MP5Ks use a v3 gearbox have very little battery space and their hopup can only be adjusted by taking the foregrip off.. and it also has a reputation of not staying where you adjust it.

CYMA is heavy.

VFCs have a mechanical burst, not sure if you can put a spectre in it or not.

I dunno, if you must have one before LCT comes out with theirs, I'd be sitting on my ics and pick up a CA a4 navy to compare side by side. I had no issues upgrading 2 different CA g36s to use 13:1s reliably but they are v3s and I haven't tried putting seigeteks into my g36, but again it's a v3 so their manufacturing jigs for drilling the bushing holes might be different for v2s vs 3s.

Nobody has come to me looking for a pinnacle upgrade mp5, so my spectre 13:1 build is the furthest I've ever taken one. Most people that come to me want basic or 13:1 builds on m4s or AKs. I've done maybe 5 siegetek builds but all have been in m4s or a test mule v3 I have that I was testing a chimera on.

Very very informative! Thank you!

So it seems none of these mp5's are a good fit, I'm very into having problem free gear.

I would rather wait to see this LCT.

So I guess the other two guns I have been looking at are a stubby pdw or the Evo. Are you knowledgeable about these at all?

Edit: also considering ump 45.

[Wrath144]

One of my teammates bought one of the very first Scorpion EVOs when they came out and it has been nothing short of awesome. For reference I am a 7+ year AEG tech, I've worked on pretty much everything and like everyone else my favorite are VFC tuner builds with BTC FETs and low ratio gears etc. Basically I'm someone who upgrades everything and is very skeptical of manufacturers performance claims. That said, stock performance was fantastic on these. Nothing has gone wrong with it either. The only upgrades he has are the ASG metal trigger and ASG bearing spring guide, as well as a new hopup. Everything inside the gearbox should be V2 compatible, but they are all good quality parts anyway. I could have been picky and changed some stuff but really it works fine in stock form. The hopup only made a marginal difference too. For anyone short of a tuner, the performance on these should be more than enough.

[Drakker]

UMPs are a weird bunch. You have 3 models available, G&G, Classic Army and Umarex (OEMed by Ares I think). The Umarex is a piece of crap, don't take it even if it is given to you. Everything is cheap plastic and it WILL break.

Now the G&G and CAs are pretty good guns. CA cloned the G&G UMP, but reports say that its pretty much as good as the original. So if you can grab either it would be good, but at equal price, I'd go G&G. They take standard upgrades, but you don't have to go crazy on upgrades, they shoot pretty well out of the box. If you get the G&G and it comes with a green hop-up rubber you are pretty much set, otherwise you might want to change it. Of course you could go overkill and use a r-hopped prommy barrel, overhaul compression and everything, but the performance is pretty good out of the box so it is definitely not a requirement, you might want to put your money on another gun or some gear.

Keep in mind that the mags are VERY long on UMPs, you will need longer, more expensive mag pouches and forget crawling in the woods with these.

[lurkingknight]

I can't recall what nozzle the umps use. the ares is crap. Of the ump owners I've spoken to only 1 has held both the g&g and the CA. he said the CA felt nicer on the external plastic. I can't recall what cylinder head is used on either one, but I might have seen something about the 2 using different nozzle/cylinder head but that needs further research. The ump is a big gun, it's kind of deceiving and the mags are almost as cumbersome as p90 mags. I'd probably have one if I had money to spare.. cause I'm an hk whore like that. Both were v3 otherwise outside of the cylinder head and nozzle possibly being unique.

[BioRage]

Key question - What's your budget?

No point for people to pour out their info like Lurking if your budgets only $200, amirite?

CZ EVO Scorpion will set you well over $600 new.

Don't forget the new Kriss Vector AEG hitting stores soon!

http://www.evike.com/products/69852/

[Datawraith]

Originally Posted by BioRage

Key question - What's your budget?

No point for people to pour out their info like Lurking if your budgets only $200, amirite?

CZ EVO Scorpion will set you well over $600 new.

Don't forget the new Kriss Vector AEG hitting stores soon!

http://www.evike.com/products/69852/

Good point on budget Bio.

Having talked to a few techs, they seem... hesitant (to say the least)... to work on that nightmarish looking thing Krytac's calling a gearbox. Who knows, maybe they did a really good job designing it and it's actually easy to work on. But that's a good one too, I'd forgotten about the Vector.

As for the point of a PDW, the VFC KAC PDWs have proprietary bits internally and are a little strange. They're very nice, but it's a bit of a pain if one of those bits break. You could just do a scratch build stubby M4, but it'd be a little bigger and bulkier than an SMG.

I'd hold out and see how the Vector and MP5 are (I'm watching and waiting myself). If they all suck, off to build the stubby or take a closer look at the EVO.

[Floreos]

Originally Posted by Datawraith

Good point on budget Bio.

Having talked to a few techs, they seem... hesitant (to say the least)... to work on that nightmarish looking thing Krytac's calling a gearbox. Who knows, maybe they did a really good job designing it and it's actually easy to work on. But that's a good one too, I'd forgotten about the Vector.

As for the point of a PDW, the VFC KAC PDWs have proprietary bits internally and are a little strange. They're very nice, but it's a bit of a pain if one of those bits break. You could just do a scratch build stubby M4, but it'd be a little bigger and bulkier than an SMG.

I'd hold out and see how the Vector and MP5 are (I'm watching and waiting myself). If they all suck, off to build the stubby or take a closer look at the EVO.

Thanks for all the replies!

Budget is really what ever. Bellow 600 bucks is ideal. But it needs to be something that's going to last. I am looking the the kriss vector. Waiting for the release before my ultimate decision

Looking at
krytac sdp/pdw
The vector
And a p90 at worst case scenario.

[BioRage]

Yeah, some people ask questions, but they tell us the budget is $200 then the thread just dies lol;

To be very honest; I don't think here's any "good enough" pdw/smg out on the market that is the best "bang for buck" - also that nothing can compete with a M4 CQB Style;- You should re-consider, as there are tons of parts available for m4 series; (and gear) + VFC is well built internally and externally; can't beat the price. .. also don't want you to regret dropping a ton of cash into a MP5 or P90 that will have some issue and then you need to pay out the ass to get it fixed ..


EX:

VFC VR16 Stinger, other variants, $380-440





Here's a fat version of pesto holding one



I mean, if you really are a SMG hardcore fan, then i'd recommend skipping the MP5/P90's; and just investing an the scorpion EVO.. but the gun is 600 new, and 3 set box mag is like $100 on top?

[lurkingknight]

A mini or super short barreled m4 is not a bad choice imo, espeicially if your gear is already suited for m4, there's no doubling up on gear having a different setup to carry non m4 shaped mags. I found with mp5 there's a shortage of quality lightweight pouches for mp5 mags, so much that I'm looking into making some of my own to replace the acm ones that I bought that are now falling apart.

If you want all out performance at the high end, that would solve a lot of issues on 2 guns to have the same gear and mag setup. It's airsoft, technically there's no difference in any platform outside of upgrade and maintenance capability. They all shoot the same projectile and use essentially the same parts and the same physics, so there's nothing to be gained from seeking out an smg over a not so authentic m4.

If you want to look different sure, get a different setup.

[BobbyDangerous]

MP5 all the way