New BB design: is it possible?

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

I remember that. I had a cap gun that shot that ammunition. The cap could put those through paper at 15ft.

@ OP, the idea of making a more aerodynamic "bb" has been around for a long time. Tiberius tried to do it with their paintball markers and created the First Strike round that was extremely expensive, marginally effective and was almost uniformly banned from all field as it posed a safety risk.

the type of ammo i'm talking about was before those caps gun ammo these look like conical mushrooms, made with very soft plastics and usually white or pink in colour, eventually they evolve to a more rounded form (like the current madbull nades but way smaller) for the classic MGC/Maruzen springer an back to the bb format we are familliar today

[Eeyore]

Originally Posted by wildcard

the type of ammo i'm talking about was before those caps gun ammo these look like conical mushrooms, made with very soft plastics and usually white or pink in colour, eventually they evolve to a more rounded form (like the current madbull nades but way smaller) for the classic MGC/Maruzen springer an back to the bb format we are familliar today

Hmmm, maybe we are not talking about the same thing, the "bbs" I'm referring to looked like while footballs with fins at one end, or maybe like a small blimp.

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by Eeyore

Hmmm, maybe we are not talking about the same thing, the "bbs" I'm referring to looked like while footballs with fins at one end, or maybe like a small blimp.

those were for caps guns in the 80's the ones I'm talking about are the ones that are available prior to the JAC's, AEG's thes ewere very popular and a lot safer than the caps guns version, they were everywhere in HK mostly in the Japanese superstore like Daimaru, Sogo etc. My first ones were teh .38 detective specials and the MP5 with brown shells. the football shape version you mentioned was recently reintroduced by RAP4 for their airsoft line

[krap101]

The problem with a conical projectile is that you no longer are able to add backspin (lift), so the flight will be parabolic. The only other way to flatten out the parabola is to increase velocity, and increasing velocity increases risk.

Yes, there is less drag on a cone than a sphere, but at the velocities we play at, I don't think it's a good idea. There isn't enough energy to spin the projectile (rifling) and if there is, you're in the realm of air guns/pellet guns, which can kill people.

These are an example of finned bb's

http://rap4.com/airsoft-airfin-a-36.html

[Danke]

I bet you're thinking of Asahi Blade Bullets.

DonP did some skirted BBs but all they did was tumble.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Heerven

In my idea first, I just want to remove the hop up and compensate by another system more simple and more realistic. if we can gain other performance without increase the velocity... why not.

Same weight projectile.. same velocity .. without the lift effect of the backspin
creating low pressure above the bb and high below it .. the only effect on the BB is gravity..

spinning something around it's axis does not provide this lift.. so gravity would have no countering force .. the only advantage would be less resistance due to the conical shape.. and in such a light projectile this advantage is negligible.

it's a interesting thought exercise.. but just a little bit of math ( even done conceptually without calculation ) soon results in it's rejection

this is even before you consider the ramifications of a pointed projectile for close range engagements.. people would tire quickly of digging these things out of their flesh.

any "improved" projectile needs to take into consideration the full scale of possible impacts with skin form 0 feet to maximum distance.

your concept fails in this regard

[DrDoUm]

I believe the OP's intention is to bring a more realistic feel to the projectiles.

If the concern is that targets can quite easily dodge the BBs at low speed, I would suggest the use of black BBs. I believe it would be harder for the target to see the BBs coming even at low speed, thus, making it harder to identify the position of the shooter. If you are in a milsim mindset, I guess you wouldn't mind not having the "tracing" effect of white BBs.

If the concern is engagement distance, than I guess the only solution for more "hardcore" milsim rules is to allow for greater musle energy of the primary weapon... these kind of games should be reserved to players who know what they're doing, are aware of their minimum engagement distance and lower musle energy side arms should be mandatory.

This is if there's no better technical solution to keep a straight path and reduce drag of the BB.

[Heerven]

Originally Posted by DrDoUm

I believe the OP's intention is to bring a more realistic feel to the projectiles.

If the concern is that targets can quite easily dodge the BBs at low speed, I would suggest the use of black BBs. I believe it would be harder for the target to see the BBs coming even at low speed, thus, making it harder to identify the position of the shooter. If you are in a milsim mindset, I guess you wouldn't mind not having the "tracing" effect of white BBs.

If the concern is engagement distance, than I guess the only solution for more "hardcore" milsim rules is to allow for greater musle energy of the primary weapon... these kind of games should be reserved to players who know what they're doing, are aware of their minimum engagement distance and lower musle energy side arms should be mandatory.

This is if there's no better technical solution to keep a straight path and reduce drag of the BB.

Had difficulties to find black BBs bio. I use my eotech to aim as a milsim guy, not the BB Flow. Also my gbbr (bb's magnet) sound when it's firing in comparison to AEG, give my position right away

Greater velocity in game can be achievable if everybody wear the right protections. Could be hot in summer but...

[Heerven]

Originally Posted by krap101

These are an example of finned bb's

http://rap4.com/airsoft-airfin-a-36.html

I just saw a couple reviews and they are not seem have the performance they promise on box. 70' Vs 300' announced...

[Curo]

Originally Posted by Heerven

Had difficulties to find black BBs bio. I use my eotech to aim as a milsim guy, not the BB Flow. Also my gbbr (bb's magnet) sound when it's firing in comparison to AEG, give my position right away

Greater velocity in game can be achievable if everybody wear the right protections. Could be hot in summer but...

Black bastards .25s a easy to find just order from the bastards or PM a bastard and ask if he can send you some. I use 1 white bb then 2 black bbs (and so on and so forth) works great and you're not aiming a flow at all and just cause someone hears a GBBR doesn't always mean they duck.

[Heerven]

Originally Posted by Cobalt Caliber

Black bastards .25s a easy to find just order from the bastards or PM a bastard and ask if he can send you some. I use 1 white bb then 2 black bbs (and so on and so forth) works great and you're not aiming a flow at all and just cause someone hears a GBBR doesn't always mean they duck.

the only Eco or bio BB I see are white, on their website

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Heerven

the only Eco or bio BB I see are white, on their website

Eco only available in white

[supermohawk]

Green devils, as their name states, are a light green which seems to make them dissapear in flight.

[HackD]

Originally Posted by krap101

The problem with a conical projectile is that you no longer are able to add backspin (lift), so the flight will be parabolic. The only other way to flatten out the parabola is to increase velocity, and increasing velocity increases risk.

Yes, there is less drag on a cone than a sphere, but at the velocities we play at, I don't think it's a good idea. There isn't enough energy to spin the projectile (rifling) and if there is, you're in the realm of air guns/pellet guns, which can kill people.

These are an example of finned bb's

http://rap4.com/airsoft-airfin-a-36.html

A little off-topic, but was just browsing the Rap4 website and saw these

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/..._1840_105.html

Now, those would be GREAT for those not calling their hits.. have a mag loaded up with those and handy - anyone you suspect of blatantly not calling hits.. now you've got your proof, where honor has been failed.

'Problem solved'? .. switch back to your regular ammo mag.

[Danke]

Originally Posted by HackD

A little off-topic, but was just browsing the Rap4 website and saw these

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/..._1840_105.html

Now, those would be GREAT for those not calling their hits.. have a mag loaded up with those and handy - anyone you suspect of blatantly not calling hits.. now you've got your proof, where honor has been failed.

The real highlight is when they disintegrate in your feedpath.