City police ask public force to register replica firearms

[DEATH2000]

Here in Calgary their is a City By-Law what prohibits a person from bringing a firearm onto Calgary Transit property or vehicles/trains. Most people have never heard about it. I know about it because of a friend of mine who owns guns and relies on public transit to get around. He has had a few encounters with Calgary Police and he has yet to get a ticket. He is smart and knows the law and is able to articulate it.

And by a "few encounters" i mean he and one of the Sergent's from the TAC team are on a first name basis.....

[Armed Infidel]

Originally Posted by Kurgan

Nothing like going off the rails.

Armed Infidel - I am a law abiding citizen. I may not agree with the laws, but I comply with them. I have nothing to be afraid of, the laws don't scare me. What scares me are people like you who believe they have "rights" beyond the countries laws.

You sanctimonious ass!! I am sorry I'm not normally given to insulting people on these threads but this kind of crap just pushes my buttons. By sanctimoniously claiming you are a law abiding citizen you are inferring that the rest of us are hillbilly militia joining underground criminal rubes out to undermine society, what horeshit. Everyone on this thread is law abiding and believes in the rule of law but because we also believe in the limits of government to intrude on individual rights or freedoms, freedoms by the way that have been entrenched and evolved in western society since the Magna Carta you in your liberal moral superiority think we are all scary and need to be contained somehow. Give your head a shake.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by AS92-RD

So what you're saying is that it can be made capable of firing above the 407fps mark, therefore it is an unregulated firearm? But doesn't that mean it can be made capable of firing above 500 fps making it a regulated firearm? Or does it have to make the 5.X joule requirements as well?

500 fps AND 5.7 joules there MAY be a couple of top end bolt action platforms skirting that limit .. but a AEG or GBB airsoft gun really can't be made to do it

[Wayne0188]

Me thinks someone should put together a thread combing all the collective info on the laws that prove the legality of airsoft guns, and very politely ask a mod to put it in the FAQ section so no one will read it. :facepalm:

Too many people are uninformed on the laws, and really need to get informed.
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=23034
And there is a lot more info on this forum and the criminal code, and the firearms act. So read before saying what you think the laws are, or what you heard the laws are, Hearsay is bullshit and there is no excuse for that kind of ignorance. All that matters in law, is what the black ink says, so read it, don't assume, just understand what the words clearly say. I don't care what any uninformed fool thinks, airsoft is Perfectly legal, and parents need to stop buying it for their stupid children.

[bareass]

brian, have you ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

[CARL]

Originally Posted by bareass

brian, have you ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

You can try it....but this is why i was stressing on Bureaucracy before..

Good luck though, it would be great if you can win..

[c3sk]

Originally Posted by bareass

brian, have you ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

Bareass, this has been happening for quite some time to a certain degree..
A few of us have discussed this directly with CBSA agents face to face.

Many retailers already follow this model for importation, they just don't discuss their business models here on the forums in public.

EDIT: The Agent may not want to follow his/her own guidelines. However once the item is correctly defined by function, it gets a pass.

[Armed Infidel]

Originally Posted by Brian McIlmoyle

that is not law.. that is RCMP interpretation of law.. on a fact sheet.. and you added the last bit.. that is not on the fact sheet

read the Criminal code and the firearms act that is law


Even hearsay from the RCMP is still hearsay

Anyone who would choose to take possession of an airsoft gun and not know the law.. by actually reading it .. all of it .. Is a fool

Everyone always says "know your rights" .. well your rights are defined by LAW and it is all available free to anyone to read.

Why take my word for it... read the LAW

Sage advice Brian thanks ...printed myself a copy of the firearms act ...time to do some reading.

OH FOR FUCKSAKKES.

All you children, sit the fuck down and pay attention to the people here who know what they're talkin about.

The fucking letter of the law doesn't matter. Joules and FPS etc etc DOESNT MATTER. A cop answering a gun call is not a lawyer, not an expert on the CCC or the firearms act, and certainly doesn't give a shit about your rights to own a toy gun that you did or didn't own before 1998.

At the end of the day, the cops can kick your ass if they WANT TO, and they may pay the price later, but ultimately if you go up against the cops you're going to get fucked. You have every right to walk around with your registered firearm in your house, and the cops will very likely knock your fucking door down on RPG.

As far as actual warrants are concerned, NO BIG DEAL. All they have to do is get on the phone with the judge and explain the RPG, and the Judge approves the warrant verbally "in the interests of time and public safety". Later, you may be good to go, but right there and then you're going to get mollested, and most likely, charged for something. That means a long drawn out legal battle YOU have to fight, and THEY don't.

Reasonable Probable Grounds. Understand it, and understand that all your fucking rights with regard to search and seizure go on hold if a cop has "reasonable probable grounds" to believe there's a prohibited weapon in your house.

Stand up for your rights, but know that the cops will stand up for theirs too. You might win in the end, but a lot of good people have wound up with bad charges for being in contempt of cop, nothing more.

One more thing. I see a whole lot of "good ideas" by a lot of you new people. That's great, but give us a little credit. Some of us have been doing this for 15 years or more, and you're not the first kid to suggest all the bright ideas, nor the first to try it.

GUNS ARENT PC. DRESSING UP AS A SOLDIER AND SHOOTING EACH OTHER, even in the guise of a sport, is NOT PC. A Politician has nothing to gain by supporting us, and far more to lose.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by bareass

brian, have ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

how exactly do you think importers are doing it now?

How do you think nearly 30 different models of airsoft guns from several manufacturers got listed on the firearms registry table and defined as unregulated firearms?

Why do you think most brick and mortar store owners and importers only bring in Clear Frame pistols? ( GBB pistols can't be made to fire over 407 FPS with .22g, so they put them on clear frames so they can't be considered replicas by CBSA)

This is the way I look at it.. Airsoft guns exist in a quantum state between prohibited Replicas and legal imitation and or unregulated firearms.

Depending on the context of the observer the item may be found to be in any one of those states.

CBSA observation defaults at replica

the law Defaults at replica if an offense has been committed

In the absence of an offense airsoft guns "rest" in a constant state of being an imitation firearm ( no one can argue that) or in the case of legal import unregulated firearm if their physical properties define them as such ( capable of causing significant bodily harm)

This is where people get the idea that the law is "grey" it's not..

Every airsoft gun is an imitation firearm full stop. that is the only absolute other definitions must be triggered by contextual observation.

[Wayne0188]

Originally Posted by bareass

brian, have you ever contacted CBSA? i know they follow their own set of rules, but if one could get a signed letter describing what's written in the criminal code. they, in theory should be able to import just about any airsoft gun. mind you in theory, but would have a good chance of success.

Or you could just get a bfa with the option to import replicas and firearms (like all the retailers in canada). Probably less of a hastle, since the cbsa employee checking your package may be oblivious to the letter that apparently overrides the rules they are paid to follow, the bfa is already something they would know about (think of them as Canada post employees, keep it simple*)

*no offense to any Canada post employees reading this.

There are a whole bunch of people who used to retail using that idea. Guess where they are today?

[AS92-RD]

Originally Posted by Wayne0188

Or you could just get a bfa with the option to import replicas and firearms (like all the retailers in canada). Probably less of a hastle, since the cbsa employee checking your package may be oblivious to the letter that apparently overrides the rules they are paid to follow, the bfa is already something they would know about (think of them as Canada post employees, keep it simple*)

*no offense to any Canada post employees reading this.

I'm pretty sure that you don't need a BFL to import an unregulated firearm since it's unregulated. Retailers in Canada don't use BFLs with an option to import replicas because transferring and selling them to civilians is very much illegal. Those are meant for prop companies.

Originally Posted by MadMorbius

There are a whole bunch of people who used to retail using that idea. Guess where they are today?

Not in business or the Hooscow.

[Brian McIlmoyle]

Originally Posted by Wayne0188

Or you could just get a bfa with the option to import replicas and firearms (like all the retailers in canada). Probably less of a hastle, since the cbsa employee checking your package may be oblivious to the letter that apparently overrides the rules they are paid to follow, the bfa is already something they would know about (think of them as Canada post employees, keep it simple*)

*no offense to any Canada post employees reading this.

Business Firearms Licenses ( BFL ) are only issued if you have a legitimate need to import replicas.. As transfer of replicas to individuals is illegal a BFL won't help you much.
In the last great purging of retailers in the mid late 2000s it was abuses of BFL due to illegal retailing that caused the collapse.

Retailers now.. ( generally, as there are still some border runners ) import unregulated firearms, some then downgrade the guns before retail

[pusangani]

not to mention they're difficult to obtain, where do people get these "facts"