G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L AEG issue

adimo · January 26th, 2015, 16:28

Hi Guys.

I just bought a G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L AEG to do some plinking. My thinking was that I could shoot some paper at about 10 m without worrying about decrease of CO2 pressure or firing all the many rounds that would empty the CO2. The AEG would shoot as many rounds as I wanted with the same power as long as I had a full battery. The CM16 looks and feels like a flat-top M4 but it's plastic so it's also relatively cheap.

The issue is that my plinker shoots about 10 cm to the left at 8 m. I checked the barrel alignment with the sights by looking through it at the target and it is just fine. I suspect the problem is in the hop-up but am not sure. Before I go out and upgrade the plastic hop-up and (why not) the barrel, I would be happy to confirm. When I wheel the hop-up down, the arm is slightly offset to the left as seen from the "chamber", but then the gun shoots to the left even with no hop-up applied. If I tilt it 90 deg to the right it will shoot about 3 cm high. At least it shoots consistently and puts 3 shots in less than 1 cm constantly (at 8 m)

I also wrote to G&G an am waiting for their answer.

Thanks in advance, guys.

pestobanana · January 26th, 2015, 16:40

Why don't you try adjusting the windage on the rear sight?

Rossco66 · January 26th, 2015, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by pestobanana

Why don't you try adjusting the windage on the rear sight?

If that fixes it he's going to feel like an ass.

adimo · January 26th, 2015, 22:37

I would really feel like an ass if adjusting the windage would be the fix. That was the first thing I did but even with the rear sight dialed all the way the point of impact was still far to the left. I took off the upper, clamped it, aligned the sights on the target and looked through the barrel and saw my target smack in the centre. That is why I suspect I get a lateral left spin on the bbs from the hopup. What I didn't understand is why do I still have the same deviation with the hopup entirely off. I guess I'll just upgrade the hopup, maybe the barrel too.

Rossco66 · January 26th, 2015, 22:45

with no hop up and a properly aligned barrel assembly, that consistent deviation is a bit odd.

Zfurlong · January 27th, 2015, 00:49

Using high quality bbs? Not the shitty cyber gun and wallyworld/crappytire ones.
Check that the hop nub is centered properly? Check that there's no debris in the barrel?
Check that the hop rubber doesn't get pinched when reassembling the gun?

pestobanana · January 27th, 2015, 01:25

You need to take the gun somewhere where you can actually see the BBs and their tradjectory. If they come out slightly to the left, but stay going in a straight line relative to how it started, then just adjust your sights. If the BB goes left and continues curving to the left, then you have a hop up issue.

ThunderCactus · January 27th, 2015, 11:20

It's hard to say without doing an actual field test. Your hopup doesn't even start to affect the BB until its just past 10m, so you might not be seeing the effects of the hopup at all.

Is the front sight canted off to the right? Most aeg's have about a 4mm side to side play to the front sight post. Try forcing it back over to the left.

lurkingknight · January 27th, 2015, 11:25

sight down the actual rifle instead of using the sights.. this will eliminate the potential that the sights are off in windage.

If the bbs are still going off in a direction, it's possible the hop up rubber is not seated properly, you'll need to pull the inner barrel and hop up unit out of the upper and look down the barrel to see if there's any obstruction in the barrel, as well as dial the hop up till you see the mound dropping into the inner barrel. From there you may need to twist the inner barrel back and forth a tiny bit inside the unit so the window and rubber settle. Poor hop assembly seems to be pretty common in g&g.. I've seen a few CMs and some m14s from them with weird ballistics behavior.

adimo · January 29th, 2015, 10:10

Thanks for all the advice, guys! Yesterday I took out the barrel and disassembled the hop up. Being a new gun, I assumed it's clean but the amount of dirt I dug out of the barrel is just unbelievable. The hop up wheel was very hard to turn so I thought I should oil it a bit too.

All went well but I had a big surprise when I looked through the barrel. With the hop dialed in my bucking was pressed in at the left edge of the barrel window, which is left of the axis. As I twist the barrel I can see the pressure point moving from left to centre to right and back. I tried to centre it and even move it to the extreme right but each time I took the barrel out after a couple of shots, the nubbing was pressing on the left again. Could this make the bbs fly to the left by giving them a left spin? They actually go left anyway even with no hop.

As I said, I checked the alignment of the sights by sighting through the barrel. However, with the rear sight centred I hit 10 cm to the left, with the rear sight all the way to the right I still hit 3 cm to the left (from 8 m). The frustrating part is that my groups are really tight with touching holes. I am planning to get a new hop up and bucking maybe a barrel too but not right now. Or maybe a rear sight with a bit more adjustment?

Happy shooting, everybody!

ThunderCactus · January 29th, 2015, 11:18

Sounds like you just need to cut a new nub for it. If the nub is too narrow, or installed wrong, it could very well be pressing on the wrong part.
It's a tube that should sit on it's side, perpendicular to the barrel.
If it's sitting vertically, or parallel to the barrel, that would cause problems.

lurkingknight · January 29th, 2015, 11:26

don't use the sights at all, use the top rail, it's possible the rear sight is mounted completely left or right of the bore axis. If the rear sight isn't centered over the bore you're going to see a shot go off left or right if you sight through it.

It's possible the window in the barrel is not cut exact center or the hopup unit isn't holding it exact center.. unlikely but it can happen, the other issue is that the rubber could be stretched or pinched on one side and pulling the mount off center... it's also possible the nub is off center. The goal is to center the point of contact with the BB as much as you can.

This is why W holds and flat hops or R-hop work much better, you level the point of contact and it's supposed to keep even pressure on the whole contact point vs 2 convex surfaces meeting at a point. It's like trying to balance 2 billiard balls on top of each other.

adimo · January 30th, 2015, 23:16

OK, I checked my sight alignment again and guess what? You were right, lurkingknit. My outer barrel is at an angle to the line of sight. Not much but visible. At 8m the barrel is looking about 10 cm gto the left of the point of aim. Just like the bbs impact.

Please let me know if i should look for a rear sight to compensate by more windage adjustment or take off the outer barrel and re-align. I woud go with a new rear sight or optical sight but it should go way more to the right than the stock one on the gun and I am not sure if that is possible.

Happy shooting, and hopefully straight!

ThunderCactus · January 30th, 2015, 23:34

is it the rear sight or front sight? because that front sight can wobble back and forth quite a bit

adimo · February 2nd, 2015, 10:26

I looked carefully along my rail and discovered that the tip of my outer barrel was looking visibly to the left, past the front sight post. The G&G outer barrel is made of two segments connected right behind the front sight. The inner segment is straight but the outer segment has been set during assembly at an angle that shifted the front sight very little, but the muzzle a lot to the left. Luckily not enough to bend the inner barrel. At the connection point there are two small screws. It only took to remove one and the barrel snapped back into place. The whole contraption is also supported by the ring under the railed handguard, so the gun is shootable but not solid. The front outer barrel doesn't move or anything but sure doesn't inspire any confidence. The gun actually shoots pretty good now, so for making holes in paper I am satisfied. Other than that, I am looking at getting a new outer barrel soon.

For those who own a G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L, I am ready to help with more detailed description, for those who don't, my advice is to look elsewhere. G&G has obviously sloppy quality control; pay more if you have to, but buy something else. As for me, I like to fiddle with my things but fixing ineptitude in manufacturing is no fun. I also feel like a fool for not having caught it when I bought the gun.

Thanks a lot to all for help!

Shoot happy and straight (now I do too).

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January 26th, 2015, 16:28	#1
adimo Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Toronto	G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L AEG issue Hi Guys. I just bought a G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L AEG to do some plinking. My thinking was that I could shoot some paper at about 10 m without worrying about decrease of CO2 pressure or firing all the many rounds that would empty the CO2. The AEG would shoot as many rounds as I wanted with the same power as long as I had a full battery. The CM16 looks and feels like a flat-top M4 but it's plastic so it's also relatively cheap. The issue is that my plinker shoots about 10 cm to the left at 8 m. I checked the barrel alignment with the sights by looking through it at the target and it is just fine. I suspect the problem is in the hop-up but am not sure. Before I go out and upgrade the plastic hop-up and (why not) the barrel, I would be happy to confirm. When I wheel the hop-up down, the arm is slightly offset to the left as seen from the "chamber", but then the gun shoots to the left even with no hop-up applied. If I tilt it 90 deg to the right it will shoot about 3 cm high. At least it shoots consistently and puts 3 shots in less than 1 cm constantly (at 8 m) I also wrote to G&G an am waiting for their answer. Thanks in advance, guys. Last edited by adimo; January 29th, 2015 at 11:22..

January 26th, 2015, 22:45	#5
Rossco66 Trader rating Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Burlington, Ontario	with no hop up and a properly aligned barrel assembly, that consistent deviation is a bit odd. __________________

January 27th, 2015, 00:49	#6
Zfurlong Trader rating Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Oromocto	Using high quality bbs? Not the shitty cyber gun and wallyworld/crappytire ones. Check that the hop nub is centered properly? Check that there's no debris in the barrel? Check that the hop rubber doesn't get pinched when reassembling the gun? __________________ current armament: mk43, ump.45, p90, barret, m14, g33, k98, m4 tac, m4 swat, mp5 navy, vsr10, p226, m9.

January 26th, 2015, 16:40	#2
pestobanana Squid Porn Superstar, I love the tentacles! Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond Hill and Waterloo, Ontario	Why don't you try adjusting the windage on the rear sight?

January 26th, 2015, 22:37	#4
adimo Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Toronto	I would really feel like an ass if adjusting the windage would be the fix. That was the first thing I did but even with the rear sight dialed all the way the point of impact was still far to the left. I took off the upper, clamped it, aligned the sights on the target and looked through the barrel and saw my target smack in the centre. That is why I suspect I get a lateral left spin on the bbs from the hopup. What I didn't understand is why do I still have the same deviation with the hopup entirely off. I guess I'll just upgrade the hopup, maybe the barrel too.

January 27th, 2015, 01:25	#7
pestobanana Squid Porn Superstar, I love the tentacles! Trader rating Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Richmond Hill and Waterloo, Ontario	You need to take the gun somewhere where you can actually see the BBs and their tradjectory. If they come out slightly to the left, but stay going in a straight line relative to how it started, then just adjust your sights. If the BB goes left and continues curving to the left, then you have a hop up issue.

January 27th, 2015, 11:20	#8
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	It's hard to say without doing an actual field test. Your hopup doesn't even start to affect the BB until its just past 10m, so you might not be seeing the effects of the hopup at all. Is the front sight canted off to the right? Most aeg's have about a 4mm side to side play to the front sight post. Try forcing it back over to the left.

January 27th, 2015, 11:25	#9
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	sight down the actual rifle instead of using the sights.. this will eliminate the potential that the sights are off in windage. If the bbs are still going off in a direction, it's possible the hop up rubber is not seated properly, you'll need to pull the inner barrel and hop up unit out of the upper and look down the barrel to see if there's any obstruction in the barrel, as well as dial the hop up till you see the mound dropping into the inner barrel. From there you may need to twist the inner barrel back and forth a tiny bit inside the unit so the window and rubber settle. Poor hop assembly seems to be pretty common in g&g.. I've seen a few CMs and some m14s from them with weird ballistics behavior. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

January 29th, 2015, 10:10	#10
adimo Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Toronto	Thanks for all the advice, guys! Yesterday I took out the barrel and disassembled the hop up. Being a new gun, I assumed it's clean but the amount of dirt I dug out of the barrel is just unbelievable. The hop up wheel was very hard to turn so I thought I should oil it a bit too. All went well but I had a big surprise when I looked through the barrel. With the hop dialed in my bucking was pressed in at the left edge of the barrel window, which is left of the axis. As I twist the barrel I can see the pressure point moving from left to centre to right and back. I tried to centre it and even move it to the extreme right but each time I took the barrel out after a couple of shots, the nubbing was pressing on the left again. Could this make the bbs fly to the left by giving them a left spin? They actually go left anyway even with no hop. As I said, I checked the alignment of the sights by sighting through the barrel. However, with the rear sight centred I hit 10 cm to the left, with the rear sight all the way to the right I still hit 3 cm to the left (from 8 m). The frustrating part is that my groups are really tight with touching holes. I am planning to get a new hop up and bucking maybe a barrel too but not right now. Or maybe a rear sight with a bit more adjustment? Happy shooting, everybody!

January 29th, 2015, 11:18	#11
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	Sounds like you just need to cut a new nub for it. If the nub is too narrow, or installed wrong, it could very well be pressing on the wrong part. It's a tube that should sit on it's side, perpendicular to the barrel. If it's sitting vertically, or parallel to the barrel, that would cause problems.

January 29th, 2015, 11:26	#12
lurkingknight "bb bukakke" KING! Trader rating Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ottawa	don't use the sights at all, use the top rail, it's possible the rear sight is mounted completely left or right of the bore axis. If the rear sight isn't centered over the bore you're going to see a shot go off left or right if you sight through it. It's possible the window in the barrel is not cut exact center or the hopup unit isn't holding it exact center.. unlikely but it can happen, the other issue is that the rubber could be stretched or pinched on one side and pulling the mount off center... it's also possible the nub is off center. The goal is to center the point of contact with the BB as much as you can. This is why W holds and flat hops or R-hop work much better, you level the point of contact and it's supposed to keep even pressure on the whole contact point vs 2 convex surfaces meeting at a point. It's like trying to balance 2 billiard balls on top of each other. __________________ I futz with V2s, V3s and V6s. I could be wrong... but probably, most likely not, as far as I know.

January 30th, 2015, 23:16	#13
adimo Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Toronto	OK, I checked my sight alignment again and guess what? You were right, lurkingknit. My outer barrel is at an angle to the line of sight. Not much but visible. At 8m the barrel is looking about 10 cm gto the left of the point of aim. Just like the bbs impact. Please let me know if i should look for a rear sight to compensate by more windage adjustment or take off the outer barrel and re-align. I woud go with a new rear sight or optical sight but it should go way more to the right than the stock one on the gun and I am not sure if that is possible. Happy shooting, and hopefully straight!

January 30th, 2015, 23:34	#14
ThunderCactus Not Eye Safe, Pretty Boy Maximus on the field take his picture! Trader rating Join Date: Feb 2007	is it the rear sight or front sight? because that front sight can wobble back and forth quite a bit

February 2nd, 2015, 10:26	#15
adimo Trader rating Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Toronto	Issue solved I looked carefully along my rail and discovered that the tip of my outer barrel was looking visibly to the left, past the front sight post. The G&G outer barrel is made of two segments connected right behind the front sight. The inner segment is straight but the outer segment has been set during assembly at an angle that shifted the front sight very little, but the muzzle a lot to the left. Luckily not enough to bend the inner barrel. At the connection point there are two small screws. It only took to remove one and the barrel snapped back into place. The whole contraption is also supported by the ring under the railed handguard, so the gun is shootable but not solid. The front outer barrel doesn't move or anything but sure doesn't inspire any confidence. The gun actually shoots pretty good now, so for making holes in paper I am satisfied. Other than that, I am looking at getting a new outer barrel soon. For those who own a G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L, I am ready to help with more detailed description, for those who don't, my advice is to look elsewhere. G&G has obviously sloppy quality control; pay more if you have to, but buy something else. As for me, I like to fiddle with my things but fixing ineptitude in manufacturing is no fun. I also feel like a fool for not having caught it when I bought the gun. Thanks a lot to all for help! Shoot happy and straight (now I do too).

G&G Armament CM16 Raider-L AEG issue

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