Look what the mailman dropped off - Echo 1 P90

[kalnaren]

Originally Posted by Azriel_Strife

not sure why everyone give clones a bad rap, especially JG. JG has done nothing but improve on TM's designs. If they made no improvements, at least they are perfectly fine under stock conditions. I'd buy the JG model over a TM any day, I own a TM and I love it, but I'd happily buy the JG in favor of the metal receiver and the much lower price.

I see lots of guys laying down the hurt with china clones all the time. Heck, our own Savage Haggis sports a JG and whips ass on upgraded TM's and even PTW's.

Clones have the potential to corner the market, and if their quality continues as it has been, I think Everyone is going to have to step it up to compete with JG and the like..

Clones won't corner the market. Who would they clone if they did?

Some clones are decent. Others are pieces of shit. The only thing really going for these clones is their price and availability, not much else. They don't improve the designs really -they just *fix* things n00bs want initially -example, higher out-of-box FPS. I've heard of tons of issues with fitting aftermarket bodies and things on most clones because they have very loose tolerances compared to TM or CA.

Also, the gun doesn't make the player. I've seen people using stock TM guns do perfectly fine against other people.

[Crunchmeister]

Bottom line is that the higher quality clones such as JG and Echo 1 (obviously, the P90 isn't a JG rebrand, since JG don't have one) are very decent quality. I wouldn't say their reliability and performance is across the board equal to that of a TM right out of the box. Some units will still can have reliability problems due to quality control. After all, this is Chinese manufacturing. While they're improving by leaps and bounds, they still haven't caught up to the Japanese manufacturers.

Now, where I will part ways a bit with Amos is that with a bit of preventative maintenance and minor upgrades, a good quality Chinese clone can easily outperform a stock TM and can be considered every bit as good as a similar high end gun in terms of performance. You can get a hell of a lot of bang for a lot less buck if you're not overly concerned with brand names. I've seen the performance of my lightly ugpraded JG guns against other brand name guns 2 or more times the price, and I wouldn't even think of trading them.

My almost stock JG HK416 was shooting more accurately and outranging a PTWs at a game last summer when we were shooting them at the range. It's seen about 10 000 rounds without a hiccup and no internal maintenance other than a reshimming and installation of a new ARL. The only performance affecting component that was replaced was the hopup rubber. My JG MP5 has seen 35 000+ rounds so far with a completely stock, never opened mechbox (complete with nylon bushings) and no maintenance (i'm trying to test the gun's longevity with stock internals). To me, that's a level of reliability that even few Systema owners say they've experienced.

But I do agree with Amos that the big part of the equation is the player. In anything, give a pro a useable tool, and he can use it effectively. Give him a premium tool, and he can use it better and even more effectively. I just don't see why someone couldn't consider a good quality, high performance Chinese model to be a premium gun.

[tangofox33]

Originally Posted by Whirlwind

Lucky guy, it looks really nice. I wouldn't mind expanding my collection to include something like this one day.

I LOVE this gun.!!! the metal upper reciever ,and easy disassembly make it a really nice addition to anyones collection.
i have one and its really nice for CQB .

for some pictures of my TMp90 u can follow this link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/quantis...7608788368268/

[Azriel_Strife]

Originally Posted by Crunchmeister

Bottom line is that the higher quality clones such as JG are very decent quality. I just don't see why someone couldn't consider a good quality, high performance Chinese model to be a premium gun.

This is exactly what I was saying in my last post, sorry if it was taken differently everyone.

[Airmax]

Well congrat's on the P90!
I was wondering when someone else other than TM was going to make an P90 for market. The metal receiver for the Echo1 is an nice change from that of the Tm version.
I had bought my TM P90 2 years ago for use on the old BC Ferry that is parked in Mission, B.C. and it was a great experience for the CQB enviroment. I did have issues with finding an setup for carrying the mags, but solved it with an drog leg rig that I still use today.
If you are planning some upgrades in future for the P90, I suggest looking into getting an Hop-twist barrel as I have tried out a tight bore and was not happy with the resaults. The setup of the Hop-Twist barrel at 360 fps works wonders for dead straight shots!
I do have an question for you, Have you tried the Echo1 mags on an TM P90?
Reason I'm asking as I have seen size issues with JG and Echo before on the M4/16 series.
Hope you enjoy your P90!
cheers

[Anthology]

Originally Posted by Airmax

I do have an question for you, Have you tried the Echo1 mags on an TM P90?
Reason I'm asking as I have seen size issues with JG and Echo before on the M4/16 series.

I have no experience with these guns, but I'd like to hope that the 100% Marui clone holds true to the magazines as it usually does. However, there are multiple cases like you said, where certain brands of mags don't fit into other guns (or they require modification). Case and point, JLS guns (i.e. SCAR) and I believe SRC replicas had a bit of a problem at the beginning. I've heard that brands like JG and Echo1 (considering they're almost the same thing) have been getting better at the mag compatibility issues.
My guess is that there won't be any problems at all.

Nice gun btw! Looks like a pretty solid piece, for the time being. Hopefully it will hold up and surpass expectations.

[RICKBO]

well guys I got my drop leg P90 mag pouch in today, in trying it on and fitting mags all seems well, but I have yet to try it out in combat.

Is of this style:

[Airmax]

Yup that's about it, say nice rig,mind if I ask where you got that drog leg from?

I agree with ya Anthology, as you said not all Clones have that issue of size, but interested if Echo1 do fit Ok as I could always use more P90's mags!. Trouble is, just trying to figure out where the hell to carry them with ,lol....my other drog leg is full!!!
Cheers

Originally Posted by RICKBO

well guys I got my drop leg P90 mag pouch in today, in trying it on and fitting mags all seems well, but I have yet to try it out in combat.

Is of this style: