Sniper training

[Ricochet]

The sniper course sounds like fun, I wish we had one in western Canada. Something to consider though is at 500fps your gun is now considered a firearm. And you cannot shoot a firearm at someone, even if they agree to it. So a milsim with a sniper fps limit of 500 or more is pointless. However, it would be neat to learn all the skill, tactics, and safety involved.

[a_sock]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

The sniper course sounds like fun, I wish we had one in western Canada. Something to consider though is at 500fps your gun is now considered a firearm. And you cannot shoot a firearm at someone, even if they agree to it. So a milsim with a sniper fps limit of 500 or more is pointless. However, it would be neat to learn all the skill, tactics, and safety involved.

an airsoft rifle becomes a firearm when it shoots over 500fps AND puts out 5 joules of energy. If you were shooting .43 bb's and the chronograph read higher than 500fps, you'd have a firearm in your hands. The 500fps limit for ba certified players is 500fps with .2 bbs, so it doesnt really matter what weight your using, your not going to be going over the 5 joule limit.

[Ricochet]

True enough, except the limit is 5.7 joules. And you only have to hit either or for it to be considered a firearm. And the Canadian government has a weight classification for BB's. I'm not sure what it is, but I'd imagine it's 0.20's. That's is how they determine if airsoft guns are legal at the border. This is from a customs agent. 5.7 joules is quite high if you think about it, but 500 fps is what is considered to be able to break skin, or cause injury. We all know there is more to it than that, but it's the original system they used in the firearms act anyways.

[FOX_111]

To reach 500fps and 5.7j with an airsoft rifle, it's well above 700fps... wich is not realistic anyway.

[H1TMAN]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

True enough, except the limit is 5.7 joules. And you only have to hit either or for it to be considered a firearm.

For an air gun, which airsoft rifles are it is both. Straight from the RCMP web page.

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 meters or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds). Air guns need to meet both standards to be classified as firearms for purposes of the Firearms Act

[Ricochet]

Thanks hitman, I'll have to double check my facts. If that is indeed the case, then a person could go around 0.45g BB traveling at 525 FPS, for it to be considered a firearm. Approx: 5.7j. My understanding is it is one or the other due to the ability to get around it. Can you imagine the speed of a 1.5g BB it would take to hit 5.7j? So if a person brought a 1.5g BB up to 900 FPS, their Kinetic Energy would be 5.644j. That would be quite dangerous. And a 0.30g BB traveling at 625 FPS would be 5.444j. Both then would not technically be a firearm. I thought the idea was to cover on both ends, so someone couldn't do that. But I will double check.

[FOX_111]

Just so you know, we use 0.20g BB as a benchmark to rate the fps of rifles.

And be assured, a typical sniper rifle shooting at 450fps will output 1.88j of energy at the musle. At 40 feets, the energy is already down to 1j using 0.30g BB. Skin typicly break at 1j.


There is nothing to be afraid of. Even hotter rifle are not much more powerfull and nothing close to 5.7j.

The certification program is there to teach snipers how to use MEDs and understand the ballistic and kenetic of their rifle and projectile.

[MultipleParadox]

Originally Posted by Ricochet

Thanks hitman, I'll have to double check my facts. If that is indeed the case, then a person could go around 0.45g BB traveling at 525 FPS, for it to be considered a firearm. Approx: 5.7j. My understanding is it is one or the other due to the ability to get around it. Can you imagine the speed of a 1.5g BB it would take to hit 5.7j? So if a person brought a 1.5g BB up to 900 FPS, their Kinetic Energy would be 5.644j. That would be quite dangerous. And a 0.30g BB traveling at 625 FPS would be 5.444j. Both then would not technically be a firearm. I thought the idea was to cover on both ends, so someone couldn't do that. But I will double check.

You've got your maths wrong; or at least have a coma at the wrong place or something:

a 1.5g projectile at 900 fps would equate to 56.44 joules, which is about a 1/10 of a 9x19mm bullet. Pretty scary for playing :P

.3g at 625fps = 6.349 joules, still rated as a firearm

Here's a nice tool to do all these calculations: www.wolframalpha.com (and much much much other useful things)

[anphelproject]

whens the next course? or are these even running anymore?

[mrfister]

just curious but where does the standard come from for qualifications. I am assuming that there is no government body that says if you take this course you can teach people to be a sniper at this level. is it just people on this forum kind of agreeing?

[FOX_111]

It's a program that was designed by very experienced airsoft snipers to set a benchmark in safety and know how. Levels are acknowledged in most places but the organiser has the last word.

Since that certification was installed, I have yet to hear of an incident involving negligence with a certified sniper using a hot rifle.

[mrfister]

ah..thanks thats good to know. may still be a bit of a liability issue. would want to be careful.

[DarkAngel]

Im working on securing a venue for the next one. Im hoping to have it late october.

[mrfister]

please keep us posted. this would be somthing i would be interested in. if i can get my sniper rifle by then

[a_sock]

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

Im working on securing a venue for the next one. Im hoping to have it late october.

Very interested, would it be possible for two people to do the course sharing the same rifle? On some occasions my Dad comes out to play and I usually lend him my longer rifles, and it be nice for the both of us to do the clinic togethor, especially since I have left home for school.