Help! I can't go to work anymore because of my youtube videos

[Conker]

The person who contacted police probably though it was a good thing to do, but it was tinted with prejudices and misinformation. It would have been better to at least sit and talk with you to understand instead...

I gotta say I'm amazed at how calmly you seem to be taking this. Good luck with this Sim, I hope everything ends well for you.

[DoctorBadVibez]

Originally Posted by Sim123456

Thank you. Great advices. I already have the number of "Le barreau du Québec". I decided to pull back a little this weekend and try to change my mind a little bit. Also I have a reunion with my union rep monday just before we go to the other "reunion" with the hospital admnisitrator. I already have in mind what I lost up to date (Integrity, reputation, physical and mental healt, a 2000$ good, my right to have a PAL etc.). Sure I can probably get my M14 back, but until it is in front of my eyes I decided to count it as a lost. I can't trust completly the system about "having it the next week". But I'll decide everything with the monday reunion. I already have the "I'm actualy looking for a lawer to sue to get compensation" card and argument since it's true anyway. I'll keep you guys informed!

Hello,
I have been reading your thread since your first post... First off, I want you to know that I am stunned by the way you have been treated. It's sad to see how bad this fear of guns has gotten. Please understand that I am of the opinion that you are taking this very lightly. You have a future beyond this troubled period, and that's called your future, just being involved in what you are in can destroy your future and put a full stop on your career in anything. All the things that you have lost, are losing and will lose add up to more than you know. If you must sue, do it right, I have a feeling your case might end up as a possible landmark or precedent. I hope everything works out for you, je vous souhait bonne chance le!

[Skladfin]

Originally Posted by DoctorBadVibez

I have a feeling your case might end up as a possible landmark or precedent. I hope everything works out for you, je vous souhait bonne chance le!

Trust me, it will not end well in the public eyes.

You can just imagine it right now:

Youtube gunman sued by employer

In the article there will be a screenshot of Sim with his stone faced moment.

The public will then realize how much of a "terror" Sim was, and how unrighteous it was for him to have gotten off "scott-free"

Remember, whatever the outcome of the trial, the media gets to write the article, not you or the winner. And the media writes whatever gets the reader's attention.

[Dremar]

All I can say is WoW.

I now understand why people hate Facebook, YouTube and any of and all of these sites, and those that use them will always blur our their face.

I am still NEW to this sport, so new that I have yet to buy my first AirSoft gun. And after reading this it really does leave alot to wonder about.
All it would take is for one person anywhere at work (there are about 2600 of them) or on my street to not like me for any reason and I could be sitting in Jail for the night.

They took everything from you, and from what I can tell they did it basically over night. That being said it did not give them any time to make any justified conclusions as to what your mental state was.
You really have to take this to the next step, for you and everyone else. If this had happened to me I would not be able to go back to work there, knowing that this happened. I would not be able to let this slide.
You spent a night in JAIL, yes JAIL. that is something that no one should have to go through unless your a criminal. I know the cops where just doing thier jobs, and for that yes I would not be totaly upset, but the fact that it got to that point is where the problem lies.

If all it took is a simple Video, even just one frame of that video to start all this, what would have happened if someone had seen this in real life.

I remember a time many years ago, a friend of mine had a GUN LIGHTER, Yup thats right, he pulled it out in a coffee shop and before you knew it SWAT was there. (Now picture these lighters they are not very big at all) Now if he happened to have lets say an M4 or even a Glock and pulled it out in front of a window, what would have happened then?

I really hope you get your gun back, and at least consider going for compensation, I would not want to return to that work place, the stress of the environment will worse, and it will not get better with time.

[DoctorBadVibez]

Originally Posted by Skladfin

Trust me, it will not end well in the public eyes.

You can just imagine it right now:

Youtube gunman sued by employer

In the article there will be a screenshot of Sim with his stone faced moment.

The public will then realize how much of a "terror" Sim was, and how unrighteous it was for him to have gotten off "scott-free"

Remember, whatever the outcome of the trial, the media gets to write the article, not you or the winner. And the media writes whatever gets the reader's attention.

Alas Skladfin, you are right... The media is what got us gun enthusiasts in this hot water that we are in to begin with... When does it end? Where are the so called democratic rights? It seems to me that every day, we lose a little bit more freedom.
I turned back to airsoft as a hobby as RC aircraft (non foam types) were becoming less and less welcome at once legal sites, and now even this hobby is in danger. But yet drinking is still legal and drinking and driving seems to have a less of a consequence if caught by police than owning a toy gun (I shuddered when I wrote the word toy)...

[cjboi]

Originally Posted by FlyGuy

Not exactly applicable to this case as the OP has said the police did in fact have a warrant, but this is a clear indication of how the police WILL try to get you to slip up and grant entry for their "fishing" expeditions no matter how flimsy their so-called evidence is. It's worth reading.

Posted from another forum:

"...At 3:30, I pick up my mail and note that I have a package waiting at security. This is standard operating procedures for my condo. Security signs for packages. I actually had 3 packages. One package consisted of two CZ858s (one restricted, one non-restricted) and two individual crates of 7.62x39. Although the CZs were discretely packaged, the ammo was not.

When I pick up the packages, the security officer (an older gentleman - perhaps in his 50's) said, "Oh, your the one with the rifles and ammo". I didn't really respond to this. He then stated, "Well, I hope you don't plan on keeping this stuff here". I responded, "Why not"? His answer, "I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY GET SHOT". I attempted to reassure him that I would be the last person to worry about going on a rampage.

I then took all my packages up to my condo (encountered absolutely nobody along the way), opened up the rifle boxes, cleaned them, trigger locked the non-restricted and properly secured the restricted. I then broke down the cardboard boxes (which only said "CZ" on them as well as had a little sticker which said "858-2" and "858-4". I also removed any identifying names (mine) from the packages and placed them in the recycling bin.

Skip forward to 9:10pm. My wife returns from her Pilates class and finds several uniformed police officers gathered in the elevator area on my floor. They ask her where she is going and when she tells them, they frantically call their superiors and state "We have the wife right here". They ask her whether I'm home and she tells them that she isn't 100% certain. Guessing that it is something firearms related, and knowing what kind of fishing expeditions happen with inspections, she refuses multiple requests to enter with her, and she also refuses to leave the door open. She then tells me what she encountered and then I wait. For approximately 20 minutes, nothing happens. I am able to note 4 marked police cruisers and one unmarked are waiting downstairs (isn't technology wonderful). I then see an officer with the rifle boxes place them in the trunk of one of the cruisers. Figuring they weren't going away, and knowing I did nothing wrong, and wanting to get some sleep, I call 22 division and tell them that I wanted somebody from the crew down there to call me.

About two minutes later, I do receive the call. Basically the sargeant tells me that they received a call and found my two boxes. He tells me that her knows that I am a legal firearms owner and that he has checked the system and sees that the non-restricted CZ is registered to me, but that the restricted is not. He says that he wants to come and inspect the firearm, the certificate and the storage. When I asked him whether they had a warrant, he responded that they DID NOT. I told the sargeant that I do have a certificate and that he should be calling the CFC which would certainly be able to prove it's worth the billions of dollars we have poured into it. He again explains that it isn't in the system and that he needs to come and check. I then ask him, "What law do you think I have violated", to which he responds, "That's what we are trying to determine". I end the converstion with "I'm sorry, without a warrant, you will not be entering my suite, and I will not help you with your fishing expedition". At this point, I believe that the sargeant lost cell phone reception (happens often on the ground floor) since the converstion ended mid sentence.

I then get my notice of transfer out to get the registration certificate number and wait for a call back. After about five minutes of no call, I contact 22 division again and ask that the sargeant call me back so I can forward him my certificate number and end this fiasco of wasted time and resources. A couple of minutes later, I get the knock at the door. From this point, here's the converstion as I remember it (Me = Me, Him = Detective Constable with the Guns and Gang Squad)

KNOCK KNOCK
Me: Who is it?
Him: Toronto Police

Me: OK
Pause...

Him: Can you open the door?
Me: I'm sorry, it's late, I'm not feeling well, and I'm not decent.

Him: Can you go throw some clothes on so you can open the door?
Me: It's my house and I elect not to.

Him: It's kind of awkward speaking through the door.
Me: Sorry, but if you want to speak with me, it will have to be this way.

At this point, he goes over the same story that the sargeant did over the phone about the restricted rifle not being in the system and that he wanted to enter to check it's legitimacy.

Me: Why don't you call the CFC?
Him: Well, our computers say it's not on there.

Me: Call the CFC. They exist for reasons just like this.
Him: Well why don't you open up. We can just check.

Me: Do you have a warrant?
Him: No.

Me: Without a warrant, you WILL NOT be entering.
Him: If you have nothing to hide, you should have no problem with us coming to check.

Me: Because I have nothing to hide is exactly why you have no reason to come inside.
Pause

Him: Listen, we have a report dealing with firearms. We're not just going to go away.
Me: That's great, but I'm not opening my door. I have broken no laws. I have done nothing wrong.

Him: Just open the door and show us your certificate, and this will all be over.
Me: I'm not opening the door, but I'd like to help you, so why don't I just read you the certificate number and you can call the CFC and they'll confirm everything is OK.

This little bit of the converstion repeats over and over again. The officer does not want to accept the number, insisting on physically checking the paperwork and storage.

Him: I'm going to note in my report that you are being uncooperative. This won't fare well for you.
Me: I am attempting to assist you, but you are insisting on violating my Charter Rights and illegally entering.

Him: Which Charter Right is that?
Me: Section 6 (I have learned this little misinformation trick from the Police themselves in the past. It is a fine way of testing their knowledge of the situation).

Pause...
Pause... They don't realize that secion 6 doesn't apply, because their knowledge of the Charter is limited. Rookie mistake.

Him: So are you telling me that you are not going to cooperate.
Me: I'm attempting to help you out by giving you the certificate number, which is as good as the certificate itself, but you won't take it.

Him: When my report goes to the CFO and shows you aren't cooperating, it will affect your ability to renew you lisence.
Me: How about I scan a copy of my certificate and email it to your division.

Him: We're not equipped to deal with that. (Are they really so cash strapped that they have no email)
Me: Well then I can't help you.

Him: I know you have the firearm, I need to see the certificate.
Me: I have the certificate, everything is legitamite.

Him: So you admit you have the rifle.
Me: I'm not answering any more of your questions. Without a warrant, you are not entering. I've tried to assist you, but you won't listen.

Him: Good night.
Me: Good night.

This ended the events for the night.

The next day, I contacted the CFOs office and requested that they confirm that the registration certificate was indeed on the system. Not only was it there, it was the first firearm that comes up. I explained the story and she was sympathetic and confirmed that I acted well within my rights and that the officer should have had access to the information from his computer. I told her my concerns about the officers threats that there would be license renewal problems and she reassured me that she would take it up with the boss and make sure that it didn't happen.

Immediately following this converstion, I contacted the Guns and Gangs task force. A representative told me the following:

Currently, the Task Force has engaged in a large scale operation involving the expired PALs of Toronto as well as unregistered firearms. I was not on any such list. She also confirmed that my restricted CZ was on the computer system, but that the CPIC version may not have been updated (Note: The firearms was entered on the system on the 13th, and the incident occurred on the 19th. Can such discrepancies really exist?). She stated that there is no criminal investigation involving me, and that I have appeared to be complying with all regulations. There will be no escalation of this issue to the CFO and I have nothing to worry about."

I know that there are thread currently about searches and speaking with police. The above could fit nicely in either spot. Legal gun owners should know that they can stand up for their rights without fear. I stood up to the task force specifically attempting to confiscate firearms, and survived. They can too. I've preached it several times in those threads, and it holds true:

NO WARRANT, NO ENTRY!!!

Ultimately, the last line of this thread is the one everyone should pay heed to.
You have rights, use them or lose them.


'Fly

that's a great story... Im not a fan of police officers, they think they're smart but really they're just smart asses... To sims: use your rights dude. Most of these cops are only grade 12 graduate's and hopefully you can get your guns back. You can actually sue your work place for accusing you of wrong things and giving you stress.

[Redzephyr]

Originally Posted by cjboi

that's a great story... Im not a fan of police officers, they think they're smart but really they're just smart asses... To sims: use your rights dude. Most of these cops are only grade 12 graduate's and hopefully you can get your guns back.

In all fairness, those comments are no less ignorant than the actions of Sim's coworkers/bosses. It never does well to paint everyone of x group with the same brush.

Sim, I wish you the best of luck in this. There's nothing okay about what was done to you. It is an injustice... fight it. That is your right.

[Sim123456]

I have the personnal card of the inspector who was conducting this operation and as I said I'll wait this week because this is what he told me for the time it would take to get my gun back but after I'll call him (if I don't get it back) and ask him what legal action I can take to get it back.

As sais there's no point of conacting media because I won't have the people with me. They'll use this situation againt's airsoft and all the "irresponsable" sports with guns in this period of crisis.

I didn't spent a night in jail, just the time until they finished the search and to the inspector to come back and get me out of it. I did have to eat my souper and it did taste awful. 2 drys bread slice with a kraft slice of cheese....

[Gunk]

Hey, at least you got cheese.

One time I got a hamburger minus the hamburger. Relish and mustard really 'aint that great when it's all that's on the bun.

[T_A_N_K]

Originally Posted by FlyGuy

Not exactly applicable to this case as the OP has said the police did in fact have a warrant, but this is a clear indication of how the police WILL try to get you to slip up and grant entry for their "fishing" expeditions no matter how flimsy their so-called evidence is. It's worth reading.

Posted from another forum:

"...At 3:30, I pick up my mail and note that I have a package waiting at security. This is standard operating procedures for my condo. Security signs for packages. I actually had 3 packages. One package consisted of two CZ858s (one restricted, one non-restricted) and two individual crates of 7.62x39. Although the CZs were discretely packaged, the ammo was not.

When I pick up the packages, the security officer (an older gentleman - perhaps in his 50's) said, "Oh, your the one with the rifles and ammo". I didn't really respond to this. He then stated, "Well, I hope you don't plan on keeping this stuff here". I responded, "Why not"? His answer, "I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYBODY GET SHOT". I attempted to reassure him that I would be the last person to worry about going on a rampage.

I then took all my packages up to my condo (encountered absolutely nobody along the way), opened up the rifle boxes, cleaned them, trigger locked the non-restricted and properly secured the restricted. I then broke down the cardboard boxes (which only said "CZ" on them as well as had a little sticker which said "858-2" and "858-4". I also removed any identifying names (mine) from the packages and placed them in the recycling bin.

Skip forward to 9:10pm. My wife returns from her Pilates class and finds several uniformed police officers gathered in the elevator area on my floor. They ask her where she is going and when she tells them, they frantically call their superiors and state "We have the wife right here". They ask her whether I'm home and she tells them that she isn't 100% certain. Guessing that it is something firearms related, and knowing what kind of fishing expeditions happen with inspections, she refuses multiple requests to enter with her, and she also refuses to leave the door open. She then tells me what she encountered and then I wait. For approximately 20 minutes, nothing happens. I am able to note 4 marked police cruisers and one unmarked are waiting downstairs (isn't technology wonderful). I then see an officer with the rifle boxes place them in the trunk of one of the cruisers. Figuring they weren't going away, and knowing I did nothing wrong, and wanting to get some sleep, I call 22 division and tell them that I wanted somebody from the crew down there to call me.

About two minutes later, I do receive the call. Basically the sargeant tells me that they received a call and found my two boxes. He tells me that her knows that I am a legal firearms owner and that he has checked the system and sees that the non-restricted CZ is registered to me, but that the restricted is not. He says that he wants to come and inspect the firearm, the certificate and the storage. When I asked him whether they had a warrant, he responded that they DID NOT. I told the sargeant that I do have a certificate and that he should be calling the CFC which would certainly be able to prove it's worth the billions of dollars we have poured into it. He again explains that it isn't in the system and that he needs to come and check. I then ask him, "What law do you think I have violated", to which he responds, "That's what we are trying to determine". I end the converstion with "I'm sorry, without a warrant, you will not be entering my suite, and I will not help you with your fishing expedition". At this point, I believe that the sargeant lost cell phone reception (happens often on the ground floor) since the converstion ended mid sentence.

I then get my notice of transfer out to get the registration certificate number and wait for a call back. After about five minutes of no call, I contact 22 division again and ask that the sargeant call me back so I can forward him my certificate number and end this fiasco of wasted time and resources. A couple of minutes later, I get the knock at the door. From this point, here's the converstion as I remember it (Me = Me, Him = Detective Constable with the Guns and Gang Squad)

KNOCK KNOCK
Me: Who is it?
Him: Toronto Police

Me: OK
Pause...

Him: Can you open the door?
Me: I'm sorry, it's late, I'm not feeling well, and I'm not decent.

Him: Can you go throw some clothes on so you can open the door?
Me: It's my house and I elect not to.

Him: It's kind of awkward speaking through the door.
Me: Sorry, but if you want to speak with me, it will have to be this way.

At this point, he goes over the same story that the sargeant did over the phone about the restricted rifle not being in the system and that he wanted to enter to check it's legitimacy.

Me: Why don't you call the CFC?
Him: Well, our computers say it's not on there.

Me: Call the CFC. They exist for reasons just like this.
Him: Well why don't you open up. We can just check.

Me: Do you have a warrant?
Him: No.

Me: Without a warrant, you WILL NOT be entering.
Him: If you have nothing to hide, you should have no problem with us coming to check.

Me: Because I have nothing to hide is exactly why you have no reason to come inside.
Pause

Him: Listen, we have a report dealing with firearms. We're not just going to go away.
Me: That's great, but I'm not opening my door. I have broken no laws. I have done nothing wrong.

Him: Just open the door and show us your certificate, and this will all be over.
Me: I'm not opening the door, but I'd like to help you, so why don't I just read you the certificate number and you can call the CFC and they'll confirm everything is OK.

This little bit of the converstion repeats over and over again. The officer does not want to accept the number, insisting on physically checking the paperwork and storage.

Him: I'm going to note in my report that you are being uncooperative. This won't fare well for you.
Me: I am attempting to assist you, but you are insisting on violating my Charter Rights and illegally entering.

Him: Which Charter Right is that?
Me: Section 6 (I have learned this little misinformation trick from the Police themselves in the past. It is a fine way of testing their knowledge of the situation).

Pause...
Pause... They don't realize that secion 6 doesn't apply, because their knowledge of the Charter is limited. Rookie mistake.

Him: So are you telling me that you are not going to cooperate.
Me: I'm attempting to help you out by giving you the certificate number, which is as good as the certificate itself, but you won't take it.

Him: When my report goes to the CFO and shows you aren't cooperating, it will affect your ability to renew you lisence.
Me: How about I scan a copy of my certificate and email it to your division.

Him: We're not equipped to deal with that. (Are they really so cash strapped that they have no email)
Me: Well then I can't help you.

Him: I know you have the firearm, I need to see the certificate.
Me: I have the certificate, everything is legitamite.

Him: So you admit you have the rifle.
Me: I'm not answering any more of your questions. Without a warrant, you are not entering. I've tried to assist you, but you won't listen.

Him: Good night.
Me: Good night.

This ended the events for the night.

The next day, I contacted the CFOs office and requested that they confirm that the registration certificate was indeed on the system. Not only was it there, it was the first firearm that comes up. I explained the story and she was sympathetic and confirmed that I acted well within my rights and that the officer should have had access to the information from his computer. I told her my concerns about the officers threats that there would be license renewal problems and she reassured me that she would take it up with the boss and make sure that it didn't happen.

Immediately following this converstion, I contacted the Guns and Gangs task force. A representative told me the following:

Currently, the Task Force has engaged in a large scale operation involving the expired PALs of Toronto as well as unregistered firearms. I was not on any such list. She also confirmed that my restricted CZ was on the computer system, but that the CPIC version may not have been updated (Note: The firearms was entered on the system on the 13th, and the incident occurred on the 19th. Can such discrepancies really exist?). She stated that there is no criminal investigation involving me, and that I have appeared to be complying with all regulations. There will be no escalation of this issue to the CFO and I have nothing to worry about."

I know that there are thread currently about searches and speaking with police. The above could fit nicely in either spot. Legal gun owners should know that they can stand up for their rights without fear. I stood up to the task force specifically attempting to confiscate firearms, and survived. They can too. I've preached it several times in those threads, and it holds true:

NO WARRANT, NO ENTRY!!!

Ultimately, the last line of this thread is the one everyone should pay heed to.
You have rights, use them or lose them.


'Fly

Hah I know that guy. I hate condos.

[Sim123456]

Ya but it was the cheapest sandwich ever. The bread was so dry it was hard to eat. I also got an orange juice box "without" the straw of course (a straw is consider dangerous in a cell) and a very old orange cake or something similar. At first I was just lying after eating and depressing than I remember that in all the movies they do exercises in their cell so I start walking and stretching. This is when the inspector cam to free me.

[Metalsynth]

You should try writing down your story from the beginning, you might end up with a good book at some point if you go further with this if you do, I'll buy one!

[FlyGuy]

Originally Posted by T_A_N_K

Hah I know that guy. I hate condos.

IMHO, it was a story worth re-printing over here on ASC. Most folks including LE officers are not walking encyclopedias of law knowledge, and often times the rules get severely bent in pursuit of their objectives. The only way you can defend against an indavertent (or deliberate) abuse of authority is to educate yourself and stand up for your own rights...nobody else will if you don't. That was the point I was trying to make here all along...


'Fly

[Dremar]

Originally Posted by DoctorBadVibez

Alas Skladfin, you are right... The media is what got us gun enthusiasts in this hot water that we are in to begin with... When does it end? Where are the so called democratic rights? It seems to me that every day, we lose a little bit more freedom.
I turned back to airsoft as a hobby as RC aircraft (non foam types) were becoming less and less welcome at once legal sites, and now even this hobby is in danger. But yet drinking is still legal and drinking and driving seems to have a less of a consequence if caught by police than owning a toy gun (I shuddered when I wrote the word toy)...

Heck one of my hobbies used to be RC aircraft, and yes its true they are making it even hard for those people too, it seems that you have to jump through hoops these days if you want to get into any hobby other then knitting, and even then you have to use sharp objects.

They wonder why we have all these problems, but then they don't make anything easy for anyone these days. People need hobbies and airsoft is just that, and its a great way to to have fun, and it is as safe as any other sport out there, heck its probably safer then most with the rules that most games have in place.

The public really needs to be better informed about this, just like any other sport, but even then there will always be problems. There always has to be someone/something trying to make it hard for those that just want to enjoy a sport/hobby.

[Sim123456]

I have another hobby. A 4000$ HPI Baja (fully modded) but it's just not as cool as airsoft. But that's a "ok" hobby lol... anyway, at 14h00 today I have my rendez-vous at my hospital!