Are Bio BBs still toast?

[chaz]

I have only used Elite Force but so far I have been super impressed. Never had a bad batch and even used some that were opened the previous season and not stored properly by any stretch. They are my go to for Bios.

[Zfurlong]

I picked up some .35 tamashi bios today, they shoot amazingly, a lot more consistent than my bbbastard .3's with the only sacrifice being 10 feet less in range, and groupings are 10times better. Went from hitting a torso at 200 feet 6-7 out of ten times to 9-10 out of ten times with wind

[Hectic]

So the consistancy is about the same. A .05g increase in weight will always yield better grouping. And id guess with some hop up tweaking you could get more range with the .35g bb's assuming of course you have enough base velocity, 400fps is just about capped out with a .30g so that is why the .28-.32g bb is so popular amungst outdoor players. At 500fps base (with a .20) going over .40g you star to experience the same losses, .43g group a lil tighter but you start loosing range. Try some .32g bioshot? I think, black ziplock bags at any rate. They are beast on a 400fps gun same range as .30's but a lil less effected by environment and a flatter trajectory and tighter groupings.

[ThunderCactus]

Range is backspin. Lack of range means you just need more hop, that's all.
My pistol shoots .32s at just 240fps out to 160ft. Still gets more range than with .28s and .25s.

[Hectic]

Gas is a whole other ball game tho, the heavier the BB the longer the gas has to expand behind the bb thus the more energy it can transfer to it. All my pistols love .30's and .36's even tho most of em are in the <350fps range, now the socom gemtec oasis, that thing just needs a bit more hop and it could run .43's probably as far as my bolt action can with a 550fps spring and my gbbr loves .36's and .40's as well and its tuned at conservative 360fps@20°c on a full loaded propane mag (just to keep it safe on hotter days, and due to the juel creep associated with gas guns)

[ThunderCactus]

There's no difference between a .36 that's been joule creeped up to be 1.48j, and a .36 that's shot without any creep at 1.48j
You can produce the exact same results in an AEG anyway

My point is, even at the very low 1j range, a very heavy BB can still get better range than a lighter one. It's all about backspin.
The reason a marui M4 loses range when you put .30s in it is specifically because it's not putting enough backspin on the BB.

[Drakker]

ThunderCactus is absolutely 100% right on this. A heavier BB will always travel farther than a lighter BB at the same joule level provided it has enough backspin, even at rather low FPS. The heavier BB starts slower but keeps its speed better over time. What happens is that the heavier BB will eventually catch up with and pass the lighter BB, and since they will both stay in the air about the same time if they each receive optimal hop, the heavier BB will always go farther.

[Hectic]

I agree totally, the point I was getting at was, that with an aeg, at some point you hit the max energy level, basically the trifecta of. Barrel length, cyl. volume and bb weight. Once you go too heavy (or for arguements sake put too long of a barrel or too short of a cyl.) The pressure behind the BB runs out before your bb leaves the barrel and so the energy starts to be expended, and its amplified by the lack of the air around the bb, the bb is likely to rub the inner and slow even further.
im not sayin creep doesnt happen on an aeg, just sayin there is a point where your 1J spring shoots 1J and no matter the weight of bb, length of barrel or port of cyl. you will max out at that 1J once the right balance is reached. With a gas system the gas will be expended untill the bb leaves the barrel so the creeping will keep going, thats why guns should be chronied based on energy, not velocity, how many gbbr guys run 400fps on .20's and then go stick .36's in their guns and wind up at closer to 2J.
Anyhow thats a whole other convo. Sry for the derail OP.

[ThunderCactus]

A GBBR does the exact same thing an AEG does when it has a full cylinder on a 363mm barrel.
It's just undervoluming the crap out of it's barrel so when you use heavy ammo, the muzzle energy rises.
However, GBBRs do absolutely have an upper limit. They actually have a fixed amount of gas that gets fired into the barrel every shot, which lessens as the gun cools down.
The thing is, that upper limit is pretty big since they use a pretty big volume of gas to fire the BB.
They're really no different than AEG's. Different firing mechanism, different power source, exact same physics.

Interestingly enough though, on AEG's particularly there's a point where consecutively heavier ammo starts to lose muzzle energy, and it's due to the air pressure not being high enough. You can overvolume it, but without the necessary pressure there's a point where it just start to joule creep in reverse again.

[Hectic]

Exactly the point i was making lol. Havent hit the upper limit of either my gbbs or gbbr, .43 is the heaviest bbs i have to test and they keep creeping, especially the co2 pistol. I should also say that above .36's none of the guns can really provide enough spin to be effective, would need to rhop or shim the hell out of the stock hop, and at a certian point obviously jamming will be an issue.

[ThunderCactus]

Bit harder to do flat hops on GBBRs, but very possible

[Sentenced2Burn]

Originally Posted by leth1337

bioshot, bb bastards, elite force are good from my experience

+1

Bioshot BB's are awesome. BBbastards too, of course. Madbull also makes some great Bios in heavy weights as well.

Overall, I'd have to say the very very best bio BB to ever live were Bioval's.