Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderCactus
Says very specifically "not safe for viewing with optical instruments"
I'm not sure where you're getting wiggle room for interpreting that?
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Says very specifically where? Because
on the actual FDA's website under Class 3R lasers it says
"Risk of injury increases when viewed with optical aids."
Key words to pick out from that are
risk and
increases - because context matters. How much magnification are we applying here? At what distance are you observing the dot? Are you still applying the blink reflex when dazzled or are we assuming the person will instead choose to continue staring into the beam like a deer in the headlights?
Under Class 1 in the same chart:
"Considered non-hazardous. Hazard increases if viewed with optical aids, including magnifiers, binoculars, or telescopes." - With sufficient magnification, yes, any laser output can be immediately and significantly dangerous. It is no where explicitly stated they become instantly unsafe immediately at any level of magnification applied.
Under FDA Regulations the class is determined by the beam output when exposed at any possible point along the beam, from putting it up right against your eyeball to a mile away. Obviously it's rating is based off the closest possible point. They give the laser a rated assuming you will be an idiot and stick it right up against your eye - They assume that will be the first thing you do. With a 5mw red laser they say your blink reflex will kick in before any damage occurs even if it's an inch from your eye.
So when we go from there, okay, a 4x optic like an ACOG means you are 4x closer to the beam. So what would be a distance of 1 foot, you would get the same exposure at 4 feet through the optic. Getting hit with a laser at 10 feet is the same as getting hit with one at 40 feet while looking through your ACOG. But the exposure is still "safe" at 1 foot just as it is and 10 feet, so whats the problem? If it's safe to look into at even 1 inch, it's safe to look at from 30 feet away with a short dot.
Is there
increased risk with exposure to laser radiation from an optical sight? Absolutely. No question about it. But there is also increased risk from fighting your blink reflex and staring into the beam directly for extended periods of time. Is that risk even worth having a discussion about? As I have stated before, the FDA has
never had a report of a 5mw red laser causing eye injury before the blink reflex kicked in. We would be the first in recorded history even when you add in optical magnification. The only injuries they get reports of are from 3R lasers are the ones where people deliberately continued staring into the beam on purpose. The vast, overwhelming majority of their eye injuries they have on record are from improperly labeled China lasers, and people being idiots with overpowered lasers like the ones from Wicked Lasers.
To add further context: every year we have more tangible injuries to people from playing Airsoft - such as people losing teeth, dehydration, cuts, bruises, hypothermia, legs getting sliced open on razor sharp tables, and the ever endless ringing of tinnitus - than injuries the FDA has ever received in the history of their organization over red laser injuries (Which is zero). At this point we should shut Airsoft down right now, cause if a red laser that has been approved for use for putting up to your eye ball (assuming you have the ability to blink) is too dangerous, we are not responsible enough to sling BB's at each other or run around the forest. Period. It is frankly too dangerous.
If you came into this threads and started pulling down math - I could respect your arguments. We could have a discussion. If you started dropping info on the NOHD of lasers, and started pulling calculations of "If a 5mw red laser(635nm) with a beam divergence of .5 mrad has a power output of whatever w/cm^2 then we can assume that at an optical magnification of blah blah blah" I could respect your argument. We could talk and get somewhere. But what you are doing right now is being upset that the community is not cool with your basement mod lasers, so now nobody can have any lasers.
I mean here you are complaining about risk of eye injuries from something that has never caused any, while you are playing in closer quarters with shooting glasses on
I mean you'll complain about the risk of red lasers causing the first ever injury in recorded history but a BB slipping past your eye pro is no big deal and doesn't deserve a second thought?
The information is available on the internet. You can even contact the FDA if you want an official answer in writing. The fact is the risk of sustaining an eye injury from a 5mw laser, even with a magnified optic, is so negligible that it's not worth having a discussion on. Virtually, if not absolutely, non existent risk when applied to Airsoft. When planning an event I'm more worried about having the proper tools on hand to address a broken bone, a chipped tooth, large cuts / blood loss, hypothermia or any no duff scenario. I'm not worried about a type of injury that has never been reported in the history of 5mw 635nm lasers existing.
At the end of the day, the free market rules out. I openly post well ahead of time what lasers are allowed at my events. Frank's Basement Industries Cuztim-Modd®™ Lasers are out. Don't like it? Don't show up. If you think FDA approved red lasers are not safe, that is your opinion and you are free to not attend. It's probably the safest thing at the event but if you have a personal vendetta against safe, commercial radiation emitting devices because of some crazy, vague non-specific hypothetical situation then I got nothing for you. If you have an axe to grind stop trying to claim it's in other peoples interests. People will respect you more if you just admit to being petty.
At the end of the day, the FDA is a lot smarter than you or I. They said it's safe, I trust them. My players trust them. People who don't trust them are free to shop somewhere else.
Cause I mean those 5mw lasers at the end of the day are
And when the question comes up whether or not the lasers you are shining in other peoples eyes are? You can say
