real steel question
 

is the mk 16 ( scar light ) really obsolete now? because it is no better or worse than the other 5.56 nato round AR's i think im a little heart broken now i have to buy a vfc scar h to feel more realistic not to mention the mag rarity

whats ur opinion on the scar l being extinct ?

It's pretty well a dead parrot. Only limited numbers still in use and those are to be withdrawn in the next year or so.

I don't stay up to date with the latest procurement moves made by the special operations community, but it's news to me that 5.56 SCARs are being phased out by 2013. Sounds like they finally saw the light, that gas piston driven ARs or 5.56 rifles were looking for a problem that didn't exist with the traditional gas impingement systems - as long as the proper PMCS were followed. It doesn't sound like they are moving entirely away from 5.56 to 7.62 though, but for operations in A-stan, I'd would rather have 7.62, that being said though, a heavier grain bullet would be a nice stop gap measure, before phasing in 7.62 rifles if they indeed make the shift. I'd also imagine that the SEALs, Rangers, Army Special Forces, MARSOC, AFSOC or whatever tier 1 uber-death-ninjia-high-speed-low-drag group will still have some degree of freedom to choose their weapon systems based on what is most optimized for their particular mission, so there might be some SCAR-Ls out there when dust from the procurement battle settles.

For references here is the US Army PMCS guide for the M4/M16:
http://www.ar15.com/content/manuals/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf

For best duty loads for 5.56:
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

well thats pretty sad but at the same time i can see why 7.62 is way more devastating looks like im going scar h .....fuck

7.62 For the Win. Several Police Departments in the US have added or switched to, the Springfield Armormy M1A SOCOM rifle chambered in .308. They found that they needed the extra stopping power from a slug but the accuracy of an M4 type rifle. Which they found in the M1A.

I'v read in a few mag's like Tactical Weapons & SWAT,say that they seem to be looking at the 6.8spc & 6.5 Grendel (more the 6.8mm) for a new round. C.I.A. had a big order in for the 6.8 from LWRC for out of country drug raids. 6.8 has some realy awsome power even compared to the 7.62.

Basically, the procurement office completed their study of the two SCAR types (L & H). The general consensus was that those who had boots on the ground preferred the H for penetration, range & takedown ability, even if they couldn't carry as much ammo overall. They also found that those who were issued L's to begin with eventually were refitted with H's, regardless of weapon format (CQB, Standard or SSR). The procurement office also wanted to further reduce their parts inventory to simplify the supply chain.

So, yeah, procurement cancelled their remaining order of L's, upped their order for H's, and is only maintaining parts for the L's until 2013 (I think) before final phase-out.

Still, they're not going to just disappear overnight - L's will be around for awhile, especially for those "special" units who like to requisition outside of normal channels.

It also seems that the Masada isn't doing well either, in the final testing phases. But as most of it is still in R&D they may have time to work out all the kinks. It'll be interesting to see what becomes the primary weapon of special operations units. I guess this means the army and the marines won't be dropping the M4/M16 anytime soon either.

Indeed! The 6.8 ( I don't know much about the 6.5 thought!) has a lot of power, not as much as the 7.62, but close to it! And has a lot of accuracy, much like an m16!

LWRC PSD Future Weapons - YouTube

Skip to 4:40!

Also +1 to the 6.8mm, seems to be the best middleground round. I'd love to see some box of truth testing with it though to see it's penetrating capability!

same old same old..

nothing in the offing is "better enough" to warrant dropping the M4/M16, and frankly I can't see anything doing so for the foreseeable future.

Marginal increases in performance or reliability aside, all alternatives are little more than an M4 in a fancy dress.

Too True. The Masada originally started as an M4. They stripped back what the didn't like, and kept what the did. Also taking a few insights from the Scar. They wanted it lighter, and more reliable. I think what F'ed it up must have been all the crap they didn't need. Like the ability to change out rounds. Stick with power, weight, and reliability first. Basically improve on what you have. Down the road you can go for the novelty stuff. It's funny, because they kept it so under wraps like some sort of super secret weapon, when the info finally was released it was like cool. But is it better all around then what you have? ...No? Oh well at least I can switch to non NATO rounds. Because that's important!

I was excited, an 5.56 gas piston system designed from the ground up, not this retrofit system business, and probably would have picked up one myself if it wasn't for the price. I remember reading Magpul wanted it to be low cost, around $1300 USD, but prices are above $2k I wished Magpul didn't sell the rights, to Bushmaster, now Remington, and did things in house, especially considering how superb their Q/C and Q/A processes are. I like that they took the fire controls group from an M4/M16, made it ambidextrous, with a QD barrel to exchange calibers, but when I picked one up to check out at a gunshow, was disappointed, weight being the driver. It felt like a toy, fire controls like on an airsoft gun, and most of all surprised at how heavy it was, especially since it's a polymer gun. QD barrel was nice, but you'll have to rezero it defeating the reason why it's QD in the first place, to easily be able to swamp out different lengths at a moments notice for whatever mission, but if you got to redial in your optic for it, then, why?

http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k...ay-diagram.jpg


The Marines already have their new gas piston 556 rifles, not 100% on the process of how, but essentially the Marines wanted new M4s, circumvent the procurement mess, they somehow were able to replaced their M249s for HK416s, but called them M27 IARs?!
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/d...rum/M27IAR.jpg

it's still an M4.. in a tux ..

By the way.. the Civi version of the MASADA is available in Canada.

Bushmaster ACR, and you can even get it in a unrestricted version (about $3200 )

the SCAR is still MIA with respect to its Firearms Registry # at this point.. but they will eventually run out of reasons to delay and release it too .. and it will probably be available in an unrestricted version as well.

You can grab a SCAR look a like in a .22 if you want for about $700.