all research said and done I want an opinion
 

We all know airsoft is a sport baced on tactical advantage. he who has better tactics aim and Intel(knowing where the enemy is) will be the winner.

In a night game one of the biggest tactical disadvantages is lack of light. What would players opinions be on some one who's "littering" the field with super bright glow sticks. Some being measurable to that of a surefire or rendering a strobe light useless.

What would be your opinions on a player who was "lighting" up the field
some are bright enough to render a strobe light useless.

(And before any one goes on about "is this player cleaning them up" of course he be clearing the field of the used sticks as the operation ends)

I have done a lot of research on glow sticks and light sources that aren't flashlights. But a few last questions can't be answered, because they are locked in the heads of fellow players.

Talk to the game host.

Well this is going to be a more "wide" gaming part of kit. Like actually getting a whole pouch on a vest just for glow sticks. I wanna know the opinions of my fellow players.(Not the hosts at this time. I will get them later.)

Well personally, for me, if the host allows it, then I'll accept it, as it would be expected and prepared for.

Conventional glow sticks aren't really bright enough to counter a decent flashlight. They may flare a low quality NVS in the immediate vicinity of the glow stick, but they won't do much for a flashlight.

If you've got some uber glow stick which can outshine a Surefire, you've got some kickass product. Chemical glowsticks emanate in all directions so their already low output is diffused over a spherical dist'n. Surefires have pretty powerful emitters focused to a narrow cone. That's pretty tough to outshine unless you're willing to blast much more power in all directions. The only practical thing I can think of that's that energetic is a welders spark or a magnesium flare. Both present a firestarting hazard. One requires access to horsecock electrical cable plugged into a stove outlet.

Dropping a brilliant light source will also have the immediate disadvantage of marking your own position very clearly and probably will illuminate you until you run away from the source. Your own natural night vision would also be wrecked which might complicate your egress. Maybe you'll stomp into a gopher hole right next to your flare.

No, Illusion has it right, the tactic you propose is something you have to take up with the game hosts, not the players. You put it right when you said "litter" the field.

I have played games where players have done this, we used them in particular to watch gate entrances to a large command structure. Waiting for shadows to cross the light that we didn't know who was and lit them up from the cover of darkness.

But how well it works doesn't matter, you already think its a great idea/tactic to use so what does it matter what other players have to say if the game Host doesn't want you "littering" their field?


EDIT: Should point out the ones we used were not very bright, had a minor glow to it, and MadMax is right on how it fucked with natural night vision. In defense there was no moon that night and so damned dark you couldn't see your hand 4 inches in front of your nose!

Also, I get the impression your thinking of "milspec" glow sticks like this stuff; http://glowproducts.com/militaryglow/ . The expense you'd encounter for the "super bright" for them to only last 5 minutes is rediculous. You can get "bright" that last up to 30 min, however, the ones thats are listed to last 8 hours will be just as bright as the ones you get at a dollar store for less.

Another problem is at night games, glow sticks are ussually used to indicate that you are dead! :P

My opinion is that it's a waste of money on a stupid idea, and a solution looking for a problem.

Since you asked for opinions.

They have a "chemical" accelerate witch causes the reaction to happen more quickly. 12 hour glow stick emitting all that light energy over just 5 minutes.


Keep the opinions coming

Also what if the player using them wasn't "littering" but keeping them on his persion (The objective in that point would be to make my self look like a nice target.)


P.S. what happens when a nv flares they brake purmanently or just shut off or just cause problems seeing?

I've had bright light through my NVG but it wasn't bright enough for an overload, it just causes a whiteout and your eyes get fucked for a bit.

So intentionally flaring some ones night vision just makes them useless for a bit and is much like a flash bang at night?

I don't wanna intentionally do any "serious" damage to some ones 3k gear or eyes

"Aim for the light!"

Cheaper or older NVG equipment can be blown, yes. It usually takes a fair amount of light to do so, however.

+1


The very premise of the "solution" being proposed is flawed in many ways.



Experienced players will counter that the biggest tactical advantage in a night game is lack of light (you can't engage what you can't detect).

You also mention a strobe light a few times. I'm not sure who'd be using a strobe, or why, or why you'd want to render it useless? You do understand a strobe is a light which emits a flash at regular intervals, such as the AN/SDU-5/E or MS-2000 distress markers, right?

As others have mentioned, bright lights will mess with your natural night vision. Additionally, bright lights in the wood will cast harsh shadows. Because your pupils are contracting due to the bright light, your ability to see into shadow areas will be virtually nullified. The amount of light sources you'd need to place, even in a small area, would be huge -- and given their limited "burn time" it seems almost futile (think Chinese plate jugglers).

You'd be better off honing your natural night vision, or saving up for a pair of NVGs.

yes but by that time nearly 4 snipers have you and shot

That would look impressive if you spread a lot of them on a dark zone you have to defend...

I would use it as a defense perimeter and I would hide from opposing force the fact that they will have to deal with that, because it has a good visual-impressiveness factor :D
other than that I doubt it's very useful...that would also lead to awesome pics of the event.

good times :)

Depends on the unit. Later models will be "auto gated", which means they have a circuit that will shut the unit down when it gets overloaded with light. Some units have an automatic gain control which will lower the amount of amplification the unit provides. Older units will "bloom", which is like what MadMorbius described. Too much light in the older units will kill them. Personally, although I think it would suck to have your unit get nuked at a game, you should be prepared for that happening. The unit I got wasn't auto gated but I put one in just because I knew some goof would be shining a Streamlight at me sooner or later.

Sorry....

Have you ever played airsoft?

I never thought of using them like that lighting up a defencive zone.

A cool use for a strobe would be mounting it to your gun, and wiring it to the battery, after the trigger, to simulate muzzle flash during a night game.

It'd make you think twice before firing and totally giving away your position, even at 100 yards.

Yes.

Almost a year now(not straight I have been to mostly privet games)

Hell I am ever a member of a team called deadcell (rag tag bag of "terrorists")

You got to draw the idiots out of the bushes some how what better then a perverbal bug zapper.(And for info the post before this was a joke you know haha in regards to the 4 snipers.)

if your one of the S.T.A.T. members going on the 24th to ftf you will see me your self

All you'll draw out of the bush will be the idiots.....

Those who know will lie in wait for you.

But the idiots already had a flashlight on to see where they're walking and/or shining it at any shadow they think moved in hopes of surprising an enemy, so it's pointless. :P

Wait a minute, so your plan is to inundate a section of the playing field with light more powerful than a Surefire, to hide better?

Yeah, that'll work...

I trust you are aware of just how goddamn much a Surefire can shoot...

The point wasnt to use it to hide but blind them and revel them.


Its already been pointed out the idea has already failed in a "hunting" capasity.

All I remeber in night games are random surefires lighting up, and people getting into static fights with their own team because they dont know who's who.

You want to blind players during a night game? I do not think you've thought your cunning plan all the way through...

Save up for some decent NV gear. You and the non blind players will be much happier.

what is decent nv gear? and can it be bought across borders?

MadMax said "horsecock" in this thread.

I didn't really understand the question but regarding lights at night:

The big ass spotter beam works well and lights up your targets from aeg range or greater. Personally I hate using a flashlight ever, even camping. Your eyes adjust. (some nights are dark enough ya might have to though)

I don't use one but I've seen gun tac lights used effectively as well.

MadMax said "horsecock"....I did read that right?

You'd be better off using flares rigged to trip wires or something to that effect.

This just occured to me now also: If you've got the extra cash, you could also set a photoelectric trap instead of a tripwire that activates a flood lamp instead of a flare. As soon as someone walks through the beam, the lamp turns on, plus no need to reset the trap after it's been sprung :)

It'd be tough to go around cleaning up all of those used sticks once they burn out. You'd be out there all night with a flashlight.

darkness is my friend.

I was able to sneak on enemy with the cover of darkness. I determine the enemy's location by sound.

I would suggest no light at all.

It's a technical term for a very heavy gauge of cable for transmitting a lot of power. Devices running on 240V or more or even HV multiphase need some pretty impressive cables.

Wait until you work in a machine shop and have to wire up a big CNC machine. Horsecock wire, orifaces, reamers, grease nipples. Heavy industry people can be a bunch of dirty old men.

Back on topic, even low grade NV can provide a definitive edge in a night game if most players have no NV. Truth is it can ruin a game. Half the fun of night play is not being able to see very well. You have to rely on your hearing and pick your way patiently and quietly. Sure it's fun varmint shooting being the only NV equipped player, but it's like playing in the day time against Ray Charles. Flashlights at least come with the cost of being very obvious.

+1. The game I played at Beauharnois at night with my scope seemed pretty unfair. Near the end the Warmongers and DOW guys were coming out a doorway into a room and I picked them off like targets at a carnival game. I felt pretty sorry for them.

One thing I remember glowsticks being used was at Keystone Strike 2. We used them to set up a defensive perimeter around the deuce in an open field. My guess was that they were going to be used to sihlouette any targets approaching the deuce so we could hit them (they were spread out just at about the edge of AEG range), but inevitably because of the limited brightness and the way they were spread out, all they really did was point out people sitting next to them (which happened at least once), and denote the area where the deuce was (which was handy, as I have piss poor natural night vision and no night vision equipment to speak of excluding a flashlight).

There were a few people with gen2+ NVG out there, they managed to find us quite effectively, and when the chemicals in the glowsticks waned (IIRC these were milspec stuff) they were pretty much totally useless and defenders just waltzed in and peppered the area with grenades and sniped at us.

Not very effective, however the 3000~ (IIRC) lumens 'god light' we had worked wonders :D

When this resurch topic was started out it had some major tactics in mind.

For an assult the vip's extraction they would be used to "dull" the vips distress signle.

In a defencive situation the perverble bug zapper.(witch will still work now better then ever after refinements)

Defusing the "nightvision" advantage(defusing but not destroying so far this ones failed)

Non pyro flares(some of the glowsticks reached super bright lightings. To the point they were like a camara flash when you snaped them, and dulled in a short time. Throwing low light very far[high enought to tell ground from bush and bush from human.)

thanks for the opinions feel free to coment or make sugestions other wise

I've got a few good light tricks up my sleeve, mostly for CQB. A favourite on is to leave a taclight on a surface aiming down a corridor while I stand guard from a different postion. The light provides illumination and an obvious target. Opponents usually end up firing at the unmanned light and I get to fire on them b/c the light is blinding them and providing good illumination for me (it's directional so I'm not very well lit).

Another trick I like is to fight with a free light. I like to be a jerk and cover a corner with the free light and aim the pistol at the same corner. After awhile I pan the light over and sometimes someone decides it's safe to look out and try to pot the guard. Little do they realize that my pistol is still aimed at the corner and it's still illuminated by the light halo.

My pistol RDS is environment adaptable. When the area I'm aiming at is bright, the dot is bright. When it's dark, the dot dims. That way I've always got a good dot picture whether I'm blinding someone or not. Always being able to see my dot and being able to make someone else's dot disappear is a small advantage.

So thats whos tac light got shot out at ttac3. O and max fair warning light dosen't blind me that well unless its right at my face other then that it helps iluminate for me.(I dont know why) I was able to use that tac light to see if any one was comming from it.