Using military patches on your kit
 

How does the community as a whole feel about this?

If you are trying to accurately represent a country's military, is it bad to use their patches?

If it is, what about a nation whose military you could not have been a part of, due to lack of foreign service options?

Note that I'm not asking about representing oneself as being a veteran, just using patches to flesh out a kit.

In my oppinion if you havent served with the respectable unit you chose to use a patch on your gear then its disrespective to the actual team youv used on your gear. I mean patches where used by differant teams to distinguish them from other teams. And also they earned those patches.

+1

A lot of people like to 'role play' when it comes to their kits for airsoft. So when it comes to patches/accouterments, IMO, as long as they are not awards or ranks and you don't attempt to claim you have earned anything or misrepresent yourself then wear whatever you want to achieve the look you are going for.

Yeah, I can definitely see how rank would be a no no. Except maybe the rank you get for signing up to basic, but even then...

I was figuring as long as you're not acting in a way that would upset people who had actually served in these branches, it wouldn't be an issue.

I don't think there is anything stopping you from using a "rank" if you have a unit in airsoft. BC Ferries crews use the same stripes as the navy. Same with commercial pilots. The only thing people might have a problem with is it you use specific patches for specific regiments. Like real regiments, not made up airsoft regiments you invented, that would be OK. Slapping a Canadian, US, Philippines etc flag on your uniform is not a big deal.

we designed our own patch among the group of friends I run with.there's plenty of patch makers out there that have reasonably priced made to order patches. We did a run of 20 patches for 9 guys.

There's no reason to have a real unit patch on you of any unit foreign or domestic, unless you're doing historical reenacting imo.

Btw just an addition. Back in Cyprus playing airsoft we made a group and we wanted to name it something. We where thinking of names and a friend came up with task force something which was a real task force and so we thought not using that name since we wherent actually from that team. We found it dissrespectful using their name and patch as our teams name so we opt to use task force 141 which is made up by the company that made call of duty. Task forcr 141 is from call of duty so we didnt find anything weird about it.

No ranks, no flags, no unit insignia unless fictional.

-Grant

I personally don't give a shit as long as it stays on the field and no one runs around claiming that they are something that they are not.

- You have the right to carry your nation's flag. It's hard to say you cannot carry the symbol of a foreign country as well, unless it's a symbol of hate or war, which could only really be looked down upon. True actors or reinactors (non-competitive) may get a pass for historical significance.

- Rank is disrespectful because it is earned. Other than titles of team captain, commander, etc, as they can be a literal translation through sport or state of being. No one will care if you address yourself as "commercial airline captain of the west side airsoft division". But "sergeant-major of the 104th" is a different story. Disrespectful sure, but not illegal if used strictly in an airsoft capacity.

- Any regimental or battalion number or designate, and SSF patch or symbol, etc, is extremely disrespectful to those who have earned a very special standard through death, struggle or heroism. Things like the Devil's Brigade patch, the maroon beret, or the silver star, could, and with good reason, would anger serving members and veterans alike. Not necessarily illegal of used in a strict airsoft capacity, but once again it isn't right. I've met a few serving and ex members who'd walk up and rip them off of you.

What's the real purpose here? Airsoft is not a representation of real military, it only has aspects of simulation. Why risk the wrath or discontent of our heroes and/or their supporters? Why risk the disrespect? I can't see a justification for it, can you? Impersonating a soldier can be very serious, also being found guilty of stolen valor, if they decide you're violation of that law, can also be serious.

Also note that the airsoft community cannot grant you permission to do such things, nor should they be able to make you feel better about it.

It's your team or group, have a uniques name and logo, even if it's loosly based off of real world, is much different and far more acceptable. Multitudes of rank doesn't serve a purpose in airsoft, other than team captain, squad commander, etc, which don't represent real world necessarily.

So, out of curiosity, what makes using camo patterns that are used by certain armed forces okay?

Certain nations use patterns that are as distinctive as any badge, and certainly signify them as military service personnel, but I never hear any talk of stolen valour in this regard.

Its not like there's no civilian camouflage patterns.

That has been debated as well, but there's a huge difference in how it is used, and that could also ring true for guns and other gear as well. I can tell you this, I wouldn't wear Cadpat fatigues in public, but camo isn't nevessarly earned, and I haven't met anyone serving or veteran who cares about camo. Also, total loadout makes you look like a specific denomination, not just color. Many companies have distribution rights for patterns, and certain gear is protected by law. For instance real CF gear isn't available on the legal market, but you can get tons of legitimate real steel sets of Multicam pants from various legitimate companies. Camo is a tool more than a symbol. I tend to use MULTICAM, but I don't dress like a seal or American army personnel. Many people use Marpat, but don't look or dress like marines. If the Rangers use holographic sights does that mean I cant?

Because when you're wearing camouflage, you're just a guy in camouflage and when you're wearing a unit insignia, you're either in the unit or posing.

There is a line of common sense here, like if you're wearing a sports jersey you're not being disrespectful to athletes.

Nothing. Some folks will insist that's part of a uniform you haven't earned.

In the real world its a sliding scale. Show up with some special cool guy pants at a game and no one will care. Show up and hang out at 7-11 after a game in a full dress uniform and you'll be headline news.

Pick your own adventure.

When you're wearing a sports uniform to a sports event, you are celebrating your support and appreciation for a team.

When you wear a soldiers uniform to a military styled sports event, you are showing disrespect towards the armed forces.

I sort of get it, but I sort of don't.

Yes, idiots who dress up like veterans in public and actually act like one should get burned like they do, but on an airsoft field, its all just so much cosplay.

Perhaps I'm just thick.

The more you know.

No offense, but don't compare private enterprise to heroes. Also, it's pefectly fine to wear support apparel. It feels like you have something specific in mind, or you wouldn't be asking. You won't find justification on here, you have to decide that for yourself. There's no harm in asking however, it at least shows some sense and respect, but ultimately you choose what's important to you. Which, may not be a shield from some commando knocking your teeth out an airsoft game. So what do you believe?

There's no real semantics here, there's legal and illegal, and of people find your actions disrespectful or not. Careful whom you disrespect I guess. I'm not in the military, but I can't think of any other denomination worthy of as much respect as I can afford to give them. It's the little things that matter.

There is one very very distinct line with any form of real world identification worn in this hobby:

Role play. People putting on clothing and wearing identifiers to greater immerse themselves and those around them in the simulation.

--- THE LINE ---

Impersonation with intent. Someone who wears a uniform or other credentials, and intentionally misleads people they come into contact with claiming they are something they are not, outside of the scope of the game they are playing.

For example, I played a game at a school recently, we were supposed to be Russian internal affairs agents. We dressed as best we could and had hoaky documents with our names on them. It was a laugh.

Then there are lowlives who show up to milsims in cadpat and rank patches, and while in the safe zone talk to real CF members, and carry on in a manner which would mislead others to believe that they are CF officers. When they are not. This is shitbaggery.

Ah, see? This.

This is all I really wanted.

I just wanted to know if there was an understanding of the difference between roleplay on the field, and actually being someone who needs a good beating.

Like I said, don't misrepresent yourself.
The understanding is there in the community at large - but there will always be those that disagree and they may make a stink about it.

That's life, I guess.

Lack of patches/rank/insignia doesn't adversely affect your ability to shoot plastic BBs at your friends.

Recently we had a young guy show up to a game in cadpat, with regimental rank (MCpl Engineer), a replica CF Tacvest and helmet. Visually indistinguishable from someone walking around in garrison. He had no idea why this was not okay.

It costs nothing to be respectful.

-Grant

Is it a problem because he looked like CF, or just because he looked like military personnel?

If he was in full replica IDF, for example, would it have been as much of a problem?

Just as much of a problem.

I spent 10 years reg force. Never once wore insignia/rank/flags for airsoft and never will.
You don't play games dressed-up to look like someone protecting their country.

-Grant

Funny how it's always about what is earned, yet I have never seen anyone complain about someone's spetznaz, GROM, or SAS patch. Take off recon, sniper, or ranger tabs too while you're at it, those are earned as well. No SWAT either please, unless you really are one. May as well take them off your team's name/patch. Maroon beret has to be earned, and even if no capbadge it's a big no no? I thought any beret or other military headwear is earned and represents something. The problem in this community isn't about using what has to be earned, but rather what can be misunderstood. How many of you will believe some 19 year old in russian uniform wearing spetznaz patch at an airsoft game is trying to impersonate such member, oher than just for a game purpose? I'm sure we all think he likes and respects them, hence wears the patch. But when you see some local unit's patch then the guy's clearly disrespectful. It's a GAME, gents. Ok, if someone is wearing stuff outside game perimeters, I get it, and I agree. If someone is wearing stuff at the game, and is either saying or implying in any way that he is something that he's not - I get it! But if someone wants to wear a maroon beret just for the game, what's the harm in that? Why do we always jump into the conclusion that wearing something (usually local) is automatically intent to impersonate/disrespect? I'd rather feel honoured to see someone sport my team colours in the field.

My whole issue is when someone dresses up in BDUs and etc, and doesn't change before commuting on public transit or in their car. Remember, we know what looks real and what looks fake. Joe Public doesn't, and it's highly likely Joe Public will come away from the observation with a negative view of our country's armed forces.

To me it's the meaning behind the symbol. My question would be why would you need to put real military unit/rank insignias on yourself? To what purpose is that?

For shits and giggles let's use Navy SEALs. You can pretty much create an entire loadout from say "Lone Survivor". I like Danny Dietz so I create a whole look based on him in the film. Will I go so far to put his unit/rank and say even name on my kit? How does that sound? Sure, honouring him by playing airsoft as him? To me it just strikes a bad cord.

We're playing toy soldiers shooting plastic BBs for entertainment, some people are real soldiers putting themselves in harms way to defend our freedom... to me that's the big difference. I know if I dressed up as Danny Dietz that someone out there would be offended I'm "playing" as him.

That's all I need to know.

That's and easy question to answer. You and your buddies struggle through hardship, massive mental and physical stress, and everything it takes to be the best you can be. You have to kill, you have to train, some of your buddies die, etc, and what distinguishes you from everyone else, even others within the armed forces, is a unique symbol of honor and pride. Symbols that represent all these things, something that had to be earned through real blood and sweat. Something that has meaning that most people would never understand. Then it gets degraded because some airsofter just plunks it on like its no big deal. People gave everything they had and more to earn the right to wear some symbols, some even died defending others. Who are you to place that upon yourself? It is however your freedom to do so in a legal manner, but the law is not always about morality, honor or respect. Same as white supremists can spout their bullshit and be protected by law. Just don't expect anyone to like you or support you. But without all of that considered, why on earth do you feel the need to wear it? Having a patch does not make or break immersion, and to lose sight of the big picture for such a small object, give me a break. Anyways, it says something about who you are and what you are about.

if you did not earn it do not wear it!

Simple as that,.... just ask Mobbs - he'll tell you all about it

How do you all feel about military specific weapons then?

Certainly sopmod type weapons mark you as much as a tag would.

really? Certainly you are trolling or are not reading the posts.

Patches and weapons are totally different.

that is like saying,.... well the SF wear Under Armour,.... so can I?

Red dot: I completely agree with your point about Dietz, I really do. However, I wasn't talking about impersonating a specific individual, let alone one that died in combat.

Ricochet: I agree with you as well. But, can't the same be applied to a uniform as well? It has to be earned too. And all the hardships, sacrifices, doesn't the uniform stand for those? Now, do we react when we see someone wearing issued Russian, Chinese, British or US uniform? We only tend to converge on those wearing issue CADPAT. A lot of those who go after the guys wearing patches actually sport issue CADPAT themselves. Is THAT necessary? Wouldn't knock off do? Do we react when someone has US army recon patch on his shoulders? If you're the guy that reacts the same to wearing ANY of the real items, then I can understand you. I may not agree with you, I don't get offended but I understand those who do. If not, then it just goes to what I originally said, which is that we only react when the real items can be misunderstood for impersonating, and it usually means something to do with CF. I've been to many games, and I've seen many times questions raised about CF items, never yet about any foreign military's, and I've seen a lot of foreign patches around, patches that also had to be earned.

If you earn the patches, and earn the rank, and earn the uniform, do you not earn the weapons?

I'm done with this

Newguy, I'm with Hollywood on this one, pal. As much as SOF weapon is attributed to SOF, a simple M16 is attributed to reg forces. Take away every weapon, and the airsoft game may as well become a big watergun fight. I think you're going a little too far there.

I think almost everything I've brought up is going too far, but I needed to suss out the community before I dropped money on the wrong kind of fun.

I don't see a problem with anything other than saying "I am/was in the forces" when you weren't.

Buy everyone seems to draw different lines.

Oh, ok, my bad, now it makes sense. Ok, the community tells you that yes, it's ok, go ahead and spend your money on an airsoft sniper rifle and no one will get offended.

Why is this even being debated?

Drake,

Can you lock and trash disposal this before anyone else gets a headache from it please and thanks.

Because of varying degrees of hero worship?

Some people here are okay with flag patches, some aren't, and that's the least offensive idea I put forth.

I don't know exactly why its debated, but it is.

I mean your weapon comments, dude. You are using a spoon, where if you switched to the shovel you'd get to where you're heading a lot faster.

I get what you're saying. But I still got what I wanted out of the thread, so I'm relatively happy.

Good. Thread done.