Getting into GBBR opinions wanted
 

Alright guys I've been watching the growing number of GBBR's and I've been tempted a few times and I'm going to take the plunge.

My question is which systems do you prefer and why?

I've read alot of helpful threads by m102404 and kulwarrior and others and I've narrowed it down between the King Arms M7A1, the g&p woc, and the WE. CQBR. Now much of what was discussed was far over my head but I feel I have a bit of a basic understanding of some of he differences, strengths and weaknesses of each... But I'm looking for a dumbed down explanation for these and any recommendations on which is the best choice.

I've also read abit on gasguns.info and understand that the KA and g&p are based on the Magna system where the WE is a modified internal escort system....
I also understand that whichever model is chosen an NPAS will be necessary as well possibly a new steel bolt and possibly some other steel parts ie: trigger assembly's and sears and whatnot...

So any help you guys can provide will be SUPER appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Cheers
Dirtdiver

Just curious, Any particular reason why there isn't a KJW M4a1 on that list?

Dirty...

Here it is without posting one of my walls of text.

Get the WE M4.

- mags are cheaper and work
- parts are dirt cheap and easy to get
- rifle is easy to work on and maintain
- for GBBRs, essentially everyone else you'll be shooting with is running one.

Or...alternatively a WE PDW. They're solid running shooters too.

+1

Although I may have a bias, there is a reason that WE gbbrs have been doing do well. They are affordable, easy to maintan parts are easily replaced, and they are just solid guns.

@dirtdiver

Are there any specific questions you have about what you are looking for in a gbbr? That may help you.

I considered the KJW but I've heard that mags are hard to find and so are replacement parts as well as the fact that the thermomold mags are a bit bulkier, although I have heard they are the best for lack of cool-down and lack of leaks...

Thanks Tys looks like it's a WE for me... Should I wait for the open bolt that is supposedly coming out this month? What is the benefit of this over the closed bolt? Also does the WE run positive pressure or negative? Again I don't fully understand all of this but it was things I've seen on various discussions.

Thanks for the advice

Both the open and vlosed bolt systems have their advantages. If you are not in a huge hurry I suggest waiting until the new open bolt ARs have been released. That way you can get an idea from a review and still have the option of getting a closed bolt system while they are still available.

WE guns use an Npas (Negative Pressure System)

Brass tube (aka original system...aka closed bolt) and open bolt use different top seals and feed lips for the mags. Otherwise the mags are the same. Coversion kits for mags are dirt cheap. The bolt is different...otherwise (I think) the rest of the rifle is the same. Can't interchange the two mags (i.e. for sharing/etc...)

Up to you. I don't doubt that they'll all be open bolt eventually. The only reason the guys around here have the brass tube ones is that a lot of them were early adopters and that's what it was.

I haven't seen the adjustable valve for the open bolt system. The brass tube version is a Negative Pressure Air System.

WA/G&P systems are Positive Pressure systems. The WA/G&P & Co systems are MUCH more realistic in all the bits and pieces. So from a builders perspective, it's sweet. Getting good mags is a PITA and they're $90+ each. Heavy too.

Both systems obviously work...just two ways to go about the same thing. Personally I think that the NPAS system is simpler (less parts/pins/bits). TM Hicapa's and 226's are NPAS systems if you want to imagine the nozzle/floating valve assembly.

Guys swear by the KJW...haven't fairly spent a lot of time with it myself. The way that some parts return is a little goofy for me (Amos doesn't like it when someone says there's an elastic band in it :)). And I'm personally not a fan of the thermold mags...they're big and I just don't like the looks of it. I think there's just one or two guys around here that shoot it.

I had a G&P WOC GBBR first - was a total pain the in the ass.
Worked 10% of the time, 90% of the time I was fixing something.

I went with the WE M4 GBBR C02 gen. III and it has been fantastic!

I highly recommend the WE M4 - just buy a replacement #66 steel part and install a RATECH NPAS and your golden.

I agree, I personally own 2 we m4's currently.

they are a big change from aegs charge load and go but I really wouldn't want to game anything else if your looking for milsim or a realistic shooting experience it doesn't get much better than we for a decent price.

Thanks for taking the time to break it down for me you've all really helped make my decision easier! I'll definately be picking one of these up soon.

And don't worry I won't tell Amos about the rubber band bit...oops, lol.

I was basically torn between the KA and the WE but from everything I've read looks like WE is the way to go... The only reason I was hesitant wAs because I had a WE pistol a few years back and the thing was basically a paperweight, so I have stayed away from WE's since then. But from everything I've heard their rifles are in a whole different league when it comes to reliability and quality control...

Now the only question left is whether I should hold out for the open bolt or get the closed bolt.. Or get the closed and pick up the conversion kit...

Is there an actual performance difference between open and closed or is it just the closer to RS operation?

Again thanks guys for sharing your knowledge very helpful indeed.

The tm compatible hop up of the open bolt system gives it the upgradeability to be more accurate than the WE or stinger hop ups for the closed bolt system.

Anyone know when the open bolt M4's are due?

The WE M4 is a solid gun but the mags can start leaking pretty badly. I found it very reliable once i replaced the o-rings and valve on the mags.

Don't compare the WE pistols to the GBBRs - they are in a different league.

I have nine WE M4 propane mags total and none of have yet to leak. Just keep them gased up full (10-15 seconds of propane) with a good amount of silicon oil to keep the o-rings lubed, etc.

Go with the WE M4 GBBR - you won't regret it :)

I personally went from an AGM to a WOC then an INO, at that time I hated the WE for its unrealistic brass tube.

The AGM was well, I wouldn't say garbage out of the box, but.. yeah garbage out of the box. The material was similar to the first gen WE handguns, zinc/magnesium alloy, extremely soft and brittle, I could see myself replacing a number of parts within a month. I was fortunate it was new at the time so I didn't have a hard time reselling it.

The WOC, I could not for the life of me get it to run efficiently, when I did, the mags started leaking. It was an ass to seal them up again given the number of parts were used to to build them.

The INO was okay, a little better.

Eventually I went with the WE AWSS system, very little moving parts meant little wear and less replacement parts, which meant the magazine needed little to no maintenance.

In addition, the magazine had an external shell, meaning dropping the mag caused little structural damage, the WE mag is probably the most successful GBBR mag out there, it is cheap, easily disassembled and maintained. Justify that by counting how many aftermarket magazines are there out for the WE compared to the Magna system.

In my opinion, the Magna system has way too many aftermarket external parts modeled on different specs and dimensions, because AGM, WOC, INO, PRIME all have their proprietary designs and little is cross compatible.

Most, if not all the externals off the WE are modeled after real steel specifications, replace the worn alloy furniture with RS if you want. The internals are much more beginner friendly as the mechbox is drop in and affordable.

We also have an official Canadian distributor for WE.

To be fair WA mags are the same if you keep them gassed up. The issue comes when you didn't do it and it is a PITA to work on WA mags...

I think as far as the hardware goes the WA guns are actually very simple to work on, as all of their disassembly are pretty RS-accurate and the billions of guides out there are applicable. The positive pressure bolt or the negative pressure bolt for the WA are interchangeable and there are proponents of both. And its also very simple to take the parts out and put back together. As far as different spec goes, they are not that different to working on GBB pistols. There are fitting work involved. My best running setup right now is a cobbled together gun with no base. And it runs nicer than my WOC-based one.

I think the 2nd Gen WE M4s dont have the mag problem. WE also improved the bolt catch engaging problem with the 2nd Gen M4s.

I'd agree with the WE GBBR.
I've got a WE KAC PTW Open Bolt and have upgraded the living shit out of it. There are so many things available for the unit and it all depends on what you really want. Another team mate of mine runs a WE M4 and his runs pretty damn awesome.

I did have leaks in a few of my mags, but on the bonus side there is a guide to having them all sealed up done by Zong (I played it safe and resealed all my mags).
For the maintenance guide that would be from Shelled Pants.
Both guys are really cool and knowledgeable about guns when I met them.. after talking with them briefly I bought a gas gun later that week.

Also.. if you ever break something by accident.. great part is that everything is available.. some at a really cheap price... like $3-$5 for a valve.

If something goes wrong in my gun.. can usually be taken care of in under 1 min on the field. =)

The WE M4s are awesome, here's my thread if your interested Dirtdiver. Best deal in the city, gen 3. Good for gas or CO2.

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=116267

WE. I got one and only one of my mags has any issues (and its only a small leak that losses about 1-2 shots worth of gas before it stops)


They are simply the cheapest, Mags are cheap as hell and mine almost all hardened steal internals now and that only cost me $120 thus far with about another $60 to go to finish it off.

Screw reading, I've seen all these guns on the field. Let me tell you, WA is crap, G&P is crap, WE is crap.
Buy a KJ, spent 90$ on internals, and you'll have the equivalent of a $1200 G&P GBBR.

The only other system that even comes CLOSE to the reliability of the KJ is WE's new open bolt system. It's the simplest and most rugged system I've ever seen in a GBBR.
They've got the PDW out already, but they're upgrading all their current line to open bolt. And I'd get an open bolt WE over a KJ.
Just upgraded my PDW as well, cost me $70 for a barrel, hop rubber and NPAS valve, it shoots 380fps stock, and there is literally nothing to upgrade as far as the bolt is concerned.
It uses WE M4 and PDW mags so your also getting inexpensive mags!
Open bolt mags are the same as closed bolt with a different (and interchangeable) lip on top

Sweet you guys have been very helpful. Already read shelledpants cleaning guide and bookmarked it as well as zongs mag sealing guide. The info and collective knowledge you guys bring to the table is awesome.

Time to start the search for a good WE M4 and some parts.

@hightimes saw your ad sweet deal but I already contacted a guy and am working out a deal...

My suggestion would be to wait for the open bolt WE m4 but honestly, the 'closed bolt' brass tube is actually quite good too if you cant wait.

There will probably be a conversion kit to change the closed to open though wouldn't there?

Guaranteed. But why rush it? The open bolt will be out this month, why not wait for a review first? That way you can get either gun while they are both available.

if you have money, get an INO

True enough... Are you anticipating an arrival date for when you will be carrying them??

Also not interested in an inokatsu...

Edit: fixed due to stupid iPhone autocorrect

Sorry no fixed date yet, just "this month".

I disagree, Inokatsu is just an overhyped WA M4 Nothing more,
The forging seam line is not removed, the gun will still run into problem and the hop up is internally adjusted, making it near impossible to do it. If you want WA system go with VIPER, they're more innovate on it, plus they're OEM of Inokatsu.

This is not a very constructive comment unless you have any experience or reason for it.

EDIT: YOU TOO GATO! :D

Get a WE

Crunchmeister has one he spent $1200 for it and it's probably doubled that in repairs since then due to all the fail it has displayed. also all compatible mags are fail compared to the KJ or WE system (unexpected but saddly true)

I have a WA M4CQB that I bought pretty well used about 7 months ago and its still running fine with occasional hickups; I slapped a fresh mag in and started running, I fell and I hit something solid right up against the bottom of the mag and the gun wouldn't fire till I loaded another fresh mag in.

Most of the problems I had with mine was when I first got it; Tyson diagnosed it and saw the sears were going, big chunk off of the bolt catch, needed a new hopup rubber and outer barrel (thanks Tys), then of course needed to rethread the upper receiver. After everything I spent fixing and modding the damn thing, I could have bought a new one. Its a finicky gun and needs a lot of TLC but it works great.

One thing has me scratching my head, I've been using Prowin mags with my gun without any problems but I've seen people saying they're crap. I've been running 4 and only recently have 1 down with a blown seal.

INO's are the last GBBR I would buy - ultimate money pit...

A good investment would be a model of the WOC-X serie from G&P.
Some of the models outside this series are not so expensive either.

http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/other-gun...html?limit=all

Before you start searching elsewhere they're only on Ehobby.
They are reinforced and feature a NPAS. That's a good choice for a first GBBR.

Depending on the budget and model/custom you want you may also ask a gun doc to build one.

WE M4 CQB R i love it .. feels right and shoots nice ... i cant ask for more ...

got mine from http://torontoairsoft.com/

I am just wondering how does the WE SCAR compare to the WE M4

I have a GEN2 SCAR, I find that everone I know who has a WE SCAR has had issues with it. The WE M4 was a later design and seems to function better. But some people have had problems with the WE M4 as well.

And the M4 doesn't have a stock plate rupture after a few mags...

Thats problem was fixed in GEN 3 SCARS, but still it was them only model so far that had a problem that would render the gun unusable.

GO PDW's!

I just put the open bolt in my we scar. But now I can't get rid of this boner.

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I'm in the same boat with picking a new GBBR;

That said, would a WE M14 or a WE G36 be a better buy? I've had an AEG G36 and been very impressed with it, but I also love the M14. Not really into M4s or SCARs, which everyone seems to have.

Go for the WE g36, rock solid.

Im currently swinging it around with one arm like a bat while typing this with my off hand.

*Oppps happened to smash it into the wall by accident*

Seems to have done more damage to the wall. oh well.

Go with Kjw/Tanio Koba

reliable, less cool-down, stanag mags will be released soon, simple as hell

nuff said

Tell me about the WE T91.

The WE T-91 is pretty much the WE M4 with a different front end, sights and stock, and a longer barrel. It functions exectly as the WE M4/M16/416. An open bolt system is to be released rather soon. It used the standard WE M4 magazine. And is ready out of the box to use either c02 or propane mags. With propane mags it will shoot a little hotter than 400fps. Is thee anything else you would like to specifically know bud?

Actually, I feel rediculously out of my element. So I'm asking stupid noob questions.

These WE GBBR's...are they compatible with real steel rail front ends etc?

Yes 100% compatable. Any RS accessory will fit on WE gbbr. They are milspec so purchase accordingly.

Cheers