GBB M4 Rifle / which one
 

hey all,

so i just got AV'd. yay fo' meh.

I've been looking to get a GBB M4 for a while now, and no matter how much i search for reviews, videos, etc, i get mixed signals about different rifles.

I want a good full metal rifle, with a good kick to it, but i don't want to spend 1000$ on it. At least not in one chunk (i don't mind upgrading parts after purchase).

I've been wanting to go with an upgraded AGM GBB M4, but then again, some say its crap, some say its good. here are the specs :

Upgrades include:
G&P hopup, G&P Hop up chamber, rubber, and CQBR length inner barrel, G&P anti-rotation pins, G&P Front Fix Pin, G&P all metal carry handle/rear sight.

Material: Full Metal with Plastic Stock & Grip
Magazine Capacity: 50 Rounds (6mm)
Muzzle Velocity: 390-400 FPS with 0.2g BB / Top Gas
Package Includes: Gun, 2x Magazines, BB Loader, Sling, Manual & Box

575$

would this be a good buy?

i want something that will work good and not break after one use. if it breaks after a couple thousand rounds, thats in the range of acceptable for me, as i said i dont mind upgrading parts.

Can anyone experienced with this type of rifle help me out?? i need some pro input.

thanks in advance.

Go for the KJW M4 GBB-R. This rifle work fine ootb and you only have to install few parts to make it perfect.

+ it's also compatible with a lot of AEG parts. A stanag mag should be release soon

i did look at it, my only concern is i have yet to find a full metal version of it in country. plus i heard contrary to what you've said that they don't have that many compatible parts on the market?
plus the bolt is very unrealistic on that rifle.

I say go with Western Arms there pistols are amazing and so are there GBBRs but they're probably more expensive then you want to pay at once

There aren't that many aftermarket internals for it yet, that part is true. But it seems to be quite the solid and reliable gun, without the need for upgrading and aftermarket parts. All of the externals can be replaced with real steel or some AEG parts as well. It looks like AEG inner and outer barrels can be used with minor modification.

Jeff

Te WA m4 is not full metal, plastic lower receiver. The AGM is a clone of the WA, but metal lower. going with the AGM would be mean the cheap version of the WA, except i would get full metal, and would only have to replace some parts to make it as good as the WA. no?

i have yet to hear anyone's criticism on the AGM GBB M4 i want to get. Please do so if you have constructive comments on it. Thats really the one i want to go for, it fits my price range. I just want to know the pros and cons of this rifle, to see if the pros outshine the cons.

The issue with AGM is bolt, magazine and internal, and none of those have been replaced in that particular one. I'd avoid it unless you plan on basically invest in the money later and replace those parts....

Get a WE they are great out of the box get yourself an npas valve and more mags and you are game ready look at this thread there are quite a few of us gaming this already

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=103282

Abit of reading but lot's of great info

http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=90068

well i know the AGM hop up is weak, and thats been replaced in the one i want.So thats a good thing i guess... and yes, i dont mind investing the money later to replace stuff as i said.

what other internals have issues on the AGM?

The appealing maybe the price at this time for the AGM, however little further down the road you will most likely require to invest a lump of cash to replace the internals. I would take a moment to evaluate the difference if you were to spend your money on something that would function out of the box and stay functioning VS something that is cheaper but may possibly require a complete internal overhaul.

Hit up google and find find all the costs of each individual required replacement part listed by Racing.

For this example I will use WA and AGM, feel free to replace WA with whatever other brand you wish.

If AGM + replacement parts < WA
-buy AGM

If AGM + replacement parts > WA
-buy WA

If AGM + replacement parts = WA
-buy WA

I've personally seen a AGM GBBR with all the tits and whistles replaced with brand parts and yet develop problems, the owner was so frustrated at the POS that he ended up using it as a wall hanger in his office - almost a $2000 wall hanger

Now for practicallity and gaming straight out of the box without much investment WE is still the best bang for the buck, I never thought I would be impressed at WE quality but I have to admit they really won me over. I have owned the old school JAC, ASAHI and sun project GBBR and currently I have a Inokatsu Super M4 and the WE 416 I like the 416 so much that I ended up buying the PDW from WE, by far they are the better choice if you don't want to tinker around it and spending a shit load of money on. They are built with a slightly modified proven simple gas system that don't have a million small parts, they don't break down if you properly maintain them (Like any other guns) and their mags are readily available and affordable.

wildcard,

i'm beyond appreciative for you input. this is exactly the type of answer i was looking for. i'll most definitely look into the WE M4. I already own a WE 1911 full metal and i have to say i am STOKED with it.

so will look into it for sure. thanks for the tip, u tha man.

Other feedback is still welcome of course, the more debate, the more constructive!

If you are in Toronto hit up Brian M at TTAC3 or one of our games this week at CQB there will be plenty of WE rifles there, or pm Frank at velocity arms I beleive he is a WE dealer here in Toronto.

Wildcard is correct, you will NOT be dissapointed with the WE M4, best money I ever spent on this sport

im in Montreal so yeesshhhh. But i'll get around finding one. thanks again wildcard.

Gato, thanks a bunch for the double tap.

GBB M4 Rifle / which one
 

Saw review video on 007airsoft, good gun has kick :)

Or you could wait till the VFC M4 GBB-R's hit the market (which should be any day now.) In country, they'd cost about $750-$850, is partially WA compatible (mags are proprietary), and if the construction is ANYTHING like VFC's past offerings, it may be the best production M4 GBBR on the market.

Of course, it is still too early to say, but I'd definitely wait on that.

YouTube- RA-TECH VFC M4 GBB review

I'd personally still stick with the WE GBBR. My WE M16a3 GBBR cost me $450 (Tax incl) and hasn't failed me yet (did have to file my hop-up rubber after purchase).

I doubt that paying twice the sum is good for anything -- except lining retailers' pockets with gold.

To me, the added realism of the VFC's bolt carrier group, a full metal upper and lower receiver, VFC's impeccable manufacturing quality/finish, the added accuracy of the split hop up design, the roller hammer and the aftermarket support of Magna type systems would yield a superior product over the WE system.

The international pricing of the VFC magazines is also cheaper than the WE magazines.

But, that comes down to what you find important. If you want something that just shoots a BB out with a bit of kick, then the lower price of a WE would get you what you need. But, if you want that little bit extra, you gotta pay that extra. You get what you pay for.

We have retailers here in Canada that carry the WE M4/16 series.
As for the quality of the WE m4/16. Its solid. Finish on them is fantastic, the internals are solid. Mags are affordable for a gas platform. They really preform amazing for the price point and are arguably just dependable as any other gas brand you want to compare them to.

I wasn't aware he was referring to the clear receiver WE's. I've been corrected. I've also corrected my previous post.

I fully agree that if you want something that just works out of the box, the WE system is definitely the way to go. Plus the new open bolt designs coming out for added realism should definitely close the gaps on the Magna system as far as realism is concerned.

Sure the VFC will probably be the best, that is until Real Sword releases their GBBRs

Real Sword GBBRs are definitely worth looking forward to

AGM/KS/JG Other ACM brand = Absolute crap avoid it
G&P =Good starter, fps is within gaming (380fps) at the cost of 210mm innerbarrel and the bolt carrier+ nozzle will eventually give up (you cant lock bolt back etc)
Inokatsu = Expensive as hell, works pretty awesome (you need to strip the gun to its parts to adjust hopup)
VFC = So far looks better than G&P yet cheaper (bout $100 cheaper than G&P advertised in Hong Kong)

Daytonagun = Uses AEG mags, no cool down effect, doesnt lock on empty and requires an external tank. (IMHO the best and most reliable)

Also the most expensive and theirs is AFAIK only AK's(which sucks since i don't like AK's that much...)

is that a price for a full metal one? i've been looking into the WE's full metal in country, and they go for around twice that price, so i'm wondering....

Thats for the one from velocity arms with the clear lower receiver.

I'm finding full metal to be over rated when it comes to long arms. Paint is a great equalizer when it comes to making something that was transparent, not.
You can always go on a trek for a metal lower later on if you feel that you need one but people are starting to realize that not having a metal lower isn't the end of the world.
You'd also be surprised at how durable some of the semi and semi-clear lower receivers are.

WRONG, you can get it for SR-25, M110, M16, M773, M4 ask Justin dont ask opforce the dude needs works on comms.

O RLY?
Did you actually get one? I can tell you Its not.
Gun itself ~$950 (shipped) for those who know how to import
Tank ~$50
Regulator $50-$200 depending on quality, assuming you went with the best, Palmer Pursuit
So when it stack up you're looking at $1300 approx the same as G&P WOC.
Lets add more mags, 7 mags for a set up. $1400
WOC? (G&P mags) $1660
Inokatsu? (Using Prowin) $1955
KJ Cansoft? $750
KJ Regular? $1k
WE M4? $1600

Sky is the limit when it comes to Daytona gun custom works, if you have the time or money Justin can even do a toytec M134 to hum like a porn star

I understand your point, but its really a matter of taste. Personnally, the realism of the gun i choose is one very important aspect. Having a plastic lower receiver, even if painted, would make me feel like i have a lower quality and less realistic gun.

i'm now strongly considering a WE PDW gbb rifle instead, i like how its more compact, makes it look more reliable i find. Plus since the gun is smaller, the kick seems to be a little stronger, which i like. and i'm guessing the quality is the same as the M4, seems to be pretty much the same platform, even takes M4 mags.

What y'all think?

The Scar, m4/16, PDW all use the same WE m4 mag. Some of the PDWs come packaged with a PDW mag, those mags aren't compatible with any other WE gun except the PWD.
That said the PDW is a great little gun, kick is comparable to any of the other WE GBBRs and as for looking more reliable, looks don't tell you if a gun is reliable or not. I cannot speak on the reliability of the PDW itself but if it is anything like the scar and m4/16 series then it is going to be a well preforming unit.

One thing to take into account is that with a gas platform most people are going for the realism aspect of the unit. 30 round mags, the blow back from the gun, ect, You will most likely be out gunned if you aren't playing a milsim game.
Mid-caps hold around 170ish rounds and low-caps are 68-70. Not the greatest numbers to have stacked against you, it just means you have to pick your shots.

point taken for the low cap mags. But yes, as you say, i'm going for the realism.

Of course, i wasn't infering that i judge the reliability of the PDW on its looks, i was just making the point that it looks reliable. That along with the reviews i've read/seen, seems like a good choice.

Solid choice, without question.

When I've used my rifle in skirmishes (just one larger one outdoors so far this season...indoors/CQB we shoot real cap) I don't find the 30rnd to be a handicap that cannot be overcome with thoughtful game-play. Most quick sets you rarely end up going through more than a couple of mags anyways.

You can't sit back and "rain" BBs onto someone...you just don't have enough ammo to last long doing that.

Best performance comes with semi-auto...so I tend to just double tap shots...and because you're not cutting loose a swarm of shots you tend to aim/pick your shots more carefully.

You can't trade shot for shot with someone not loaded real cap...at least not for long. You need to displace or else coordinate someone(s) else in to work things out.

All in all sounds like a win to me. But blazing away with thousands of rounds on tap (10 mags @ mid cap loads) is fun too.

Haven't seen it in person yet..but the Open Bolt vs Brass Tube use different feed lips and top seals. There'll be mag conversion kits too. I think we'll see a standard sort itself out soon.

I am planning to hop on the GBB train as well...

How are the WE M4 CQB 3rd gen Cansoft GBBs...? Does plastic receiver cause reliability problems?

Also, is it harder to maintain then say the WE pDWs?

The maintanance for all of WE AR type rifles is pretty much the same. I suggest taking a look at the link in shelledpants sig. He made as really good write up on cleaning and general maintanance. And yes a plastic lower can be less reliable than a metal one. Many people have had the plastic receivers crack at the pivot point. Baker_Jeff sells replacment lowers for the cansoft versions. But you can eliminate this problem by getting a full metal one.

Cool, thanks for the info Eeyore. I think I see one for sell which is full metal so maybe I will go with that one. But for PDW I did hear talks that its easier to work with as it disassembles pretty nicely into several major parts.

By the way... Does the PDW accept M4 parts like stocks or maybe grips? Or are all parts original parts?