Stories like this are why I stick to buying good AEGs and upgrading them with Lonex and other high quality internals. I have seen my custom M4 perform alongside PTWs and it easily keeps up with them performance wise; total amount spent including the base rifle: $950+/-. Sure it doesn't quite have that pretty Systema sound or the millimeter length trigger response (more like a half cm), but range, accuracy, and overall quality are up to par.

Not to bash Systema/FCC as there are people I have met with very finely tuned PTWs that look and operate beautifully, but most of them had to be finely tuned by the operator before gaming. I have read far too many threads, posts, articles, heard through word-of-mouth, what have you, of guys receiving ungameable systems and having to dump another load of cash, and frustration, just to get it to good performance. Ultimately, if someone is spending $1700+ on an airsoft rifle/carbine, that bitch better be spectacular out of the box with ZERO upgrading/modification needed aside from external additions to the user's preference. I would LOVE a Systema/FCC, but these stories keep me in check from burning a hole in my wallet.

But, what do I know, I'm only an airsofter.

I appreciate the thread macguyver.

Thread derail...

I've read about some people with very deep pockets doing HPA conversions to their magazines at around 1100+ / mag using second air scuba tanks custom sized. N2 or He magazines would be the holy grail.

HS5 had a video of AEG chrono'ing 950's, highest bolt action spring i've seen to date is 1057ish i believe. 5j guns are pretty easy to build nowadays.


On topic:
After reading this thread and seeing some more FCC guns, i'm going to "wait and see" unless I got a deal. Far more interested in the CTW/DTW/A&KTW platforms as cheap throwaway's that could potentially take quality TW components. Next on the list would be de-activating a gun and putting in a complete gearbox or GBB.

I was here too until I got married and don't have the time to work on, and maintain my own guns. I only ever owned 1-2 AEGs at a time so having a gun and backup became a pain especially since they were different platforms. Cleaning and clearing the cylinder on an AEG is a PITA, sure the ICS/Katana system are available, but it's an ICS... Katana wasnt available when i took the TW plunge, and i got sick of waiting for the real sword TW/Katana thing that was advertised back in 2010.

Define gameable. Some people are incredibly picky and want to have the absolutely best that the system/platform can perform. We can debate this around forever but I am happy with the 08 SCK gun I have and the 2011 that I recently got my grubby hands on. Yeah I had problems with the 2011 but if it was a new AEG I would have done the ER hop / M nub mod + barrel shim + opened it up and relubricated and cleaning and re-shimmed, replaced the wiring, added a MOSFET, new bore, hopup rubber blah blah blah blah......


Another props to Brad here.

Hey look, it's an argument from 5 years ago :D lmao

What he said.

Full submersion in the water capability is not going to happen anytime soon but the moisture resistant coating that is applied to their boards are more than sufficient to allow gaming on normal condition.

Anything capable of shooting 10J is illegal and you might as well stick to RS

I never had to tuned my FCC (not yet anyways) with the exception of the fine tuning the Hop Up, I have my first FCC rifle still on ALL original parts and been running strong still even after shooting in excess of 200K of bbs in the last two years from the combination of testing, gaming and loaning it out the same can't be said about my other AEG and my Systema. Most of the players who criticize Systema/FCC for their price have never shoot or game with them trust me when it comes to ready to go no fuss and high performance AEG, so far there is nothing that can come close to a PTW even a finely tuned AEG, are they perfect? NO will they break? HELL YES but when in comparison with a finely tuned AEG PTW still wins hands down, I've seen guys with their fine tuned AEG with all the mosfet, bells and whistles have their gun failed in the middle of a shootout. in over 2 decades in this hobby there are countless of argument on which system is better gas vs aeg, classic air vs gbbr, ptw vs aeg. in the end its still a toy, toys break, toys cost money and airsoft is definitely a endless pit where we continue to dump money into it much like a vicious ex wife.

After seeing the A&K version and shooting them here in HK firsthand I can tell you that aside from their strong motor I would'nt touch them with a ten foot pole the CTW is a better platform the A&K looked like a copy of both the old Systema and CTW and from what I was told by one of the retailer, they were made with a slew of different parts after the big raid in China on all ACM airsoft company. The one I was shooting that day was already tuned by one of the head tech from Guns N Guys which he replaced 70% of the internals

I wouldn't touch A&K Unless you are willing to shell out money for the electronics, they are built quite weak and do need some fine tuning to make them last or they will burn out quite easily. The exterior is good for the price and makes a great entry gun into the TW world but thats about it. The DTW is the same way, cheap TW gun but you'll have to replace the parts as they break.

The quote you're referring to isn't from me, just sayin'.

well one of the first thing they replace is the boards it failed after the first round due to the humidity here in HK they did a complete tear down and discovered that despite their strong motor they found that the core was completely exposed so it will fail eventually and teh similarities of the motor to the DTW (the motor on the current release is slightly different) the body is similar to CTW so you are right it is a good exterior and definitely a good entry PTW

Well what we used to do with AEGs is buy a gun for the body quality, and spend $600 replacing EVERYTHING on the inside....just sayin...
The method hasn't changed, just the cost of the parts

My personal preference. Luckily with drop-in gear box sets this is a much easier task now.

You attributed the quotes to wrong people.

High energy games are growing. Before paintball or simunition or airsoft avid gun owners would make their own rubber bullets to shoot at each other to "play" (that used quite liberally). Maybe things are different in Ontario.

However their is a niche group individuals that -want- higher energy guns. 5joule is the current "high energy" standard but their are many people working on the 10j AEG. I see no reason why the TW platform cannot meet the same energy performance.


Also full submersion for electronics is possible:

Apple iPhone 4 Water Test With LIQUIPEL - YouTube

Above 5.7j it's a firearm
Then comes the question of what KIND of firearm is it
You have to store it like a firearm, but most other common sense rules of airsoft apply.
Not sure if you're allowed to shoot people with it though...

Question is, why would you WANT a 10j AEG? I'm pretty sure there isn't a heavy metal on the planet that could satisfy the weight needed for optimal performance at 1000fps anyway. You'd need a new projectile.
You could potentially make an M4 shoot a 5.56 round at 4000ft/s, but it'll never get more accurate unless you make the round heavier.

Lol dafuq is the point in having something that shoots at that high a velocity? You may as well petition to make civilian use simmunition legal.